I know this has been done to death... transactivism v feminism

[Lo24]

I know, I know...

It's just no matter what I read or who I talk to I still can't find an answer that makes sense to me.

I'm happy for anyone to be whoever they want. I don't believe the blue brain/pink brain crap (science doesn't support it) but I still support anyone who feels they need to transionition (fully or otherwise).

It seems so awful that (amoung other human rights violations) Trump is removing laws that protect trans kids. But the argument (the only one I see thrown over the Internet, bashing radical feminists) is the idea anyone who feels like a woman is one, whether or not they transion in any form.

I have 4 young girls. I don't want them left at risk because teachers can not challenge boys who follow them into the toilets because that would be transphobia. If they ever have to (god forbid) access female prisons, dv shelters, psychiatric hospital I want them to have protected female only space.

Yet mention this to transactivists and it's transphobic and makes me a radical feminist. I don't particularly care about the rad fem argument that trans renforces general roles, or that it's body dismorphia and should be treatment by mental health professionals, I don't care for Germaine Greer's stance on the 'issue'. So I don't have a radical stance on this. I just don't want female rights protection eroded. I'm sure any trans person who has transioned in some form won't pose a risk, but if anyone who terms themselves a woman must be allowed access to female only spaces then that protects predatory men from being challenged also. But I can't say that or I get accused of accusing trans people of being predators. Ahhh!!!!

Anyone know the answer? Is there any form or transgender activism that recognises that eroding female protections doesn't help trans women either? Or any literature by anyone trans that gives a better argument than the 'everyone who says they are a woman is one and if you don't agree you are a bigot' line of thought. Help!

Very thoughtful post, the key point " I also think that, because it has been so closely aligned with gay rights (and a lot of LGBT organisations lean very heavily on the 'T' part now) there could be a backlash against gay people" is or should be very concerning to the LGB community because if the T thing becomes embroiled in litigation due to misdiagnosis it could cause such a vitriolic response to the entire community.

I see transgenderism as directly opposed to the interests of homosexuals of both sexes, but particularly lesbians. If you insist that gender identity trumps biology, with the logical conclusion that transwomen are women just like any other, then the demand that lesbians have sex with males is completely reasonable. Except, of course, that it's nothing of the sort.

Interesting BBC Womans Hour interview with Tavistock and Portman re GID clinic: tavistockandportman.nhs.uk/about-us/news/stories/gender-identity-development-service-on-bbc-radio-4s-womans-hour/

Thanks for the link. It's an interesting interview - They seem to at least acknowledge that there are a range of issues that play into this but still don't seem to understand that sex and gender are different things. (In fact, the idea of sex - whether instead of or in addition to gender - seems to have been almost eradicated from society.)

Previously (before transgenderism), there were a lot more male to female transexuals and it was reported by medical experts that it was mainly a condition which affected people who were born as men. Now, as the article says, a lot more young women (or 'natal females') are being referred as transgender than males.

This could be seen as a reason for society to question the expectations, limitations, harassment etc put on women by society because of their sex but instead their rejection of or uncomfortableness with this is seen as an indication that they aren't female.

While the issue of bio men in women's changing rooms gets a lot of discussion (on here at least), I think there are other important issues e.g.

• The eradication of the notion of 'sex', separate from gender, and discussion on the discrimination and challenges women face because of their sex.

• Addressing the issues that these young women face (e.g. pressure over appearance/body image, sexual harassment, stereotypes of what women should and should not do etc) and communication of the idea that the way they feel, what they want to do, how they want to dress, not liking the attention/harrassment they get from boys and men doesn't mean they aren't a woman - and that these issues should be tackled head on, not by young women feeling they have to 'change gender'.

In our discussions in Feminism Chat we often discuss both those issues, Helen.

Out of interest, anyone know why the peak trans thread has just been deleted? It seemed no different from any of the others, unless something spectacularly awful has happened in the last couple of hours. I did report a post asking what policy was on plagiarism (poster had cut and paste a large chunk of a research paper, passing it off as their own views rather than acknowledging where it came from), but there didn't seem to be anything bun-fighty on there.

Lorna said the opening post broke guidelines but wasn't more specific. I think there were complaints.