To think the abortion rate will increase after April this year?

[RocketQueenP]

When the new rules on tax credits / universal credit come in ie when no one can claim benefit be it top up or otherwise for any more than 2 children

Sadly I am helping a good friend cope who has just had an early abortion, she did not plan the pregnancy and one of the main reasons is she and her DH are low earners/ They already have 2 at school, and won't be able to afford to have this baby. She is devastated and has admitted they could have squeezed another DC in if it wasn't for the new rules. I think this will happen a lot. :(

In times gone by people would adopt out children that were unplanned that they couldn't afford and I really feel that this is what we are headed back to. Not adoption but, you get my drift

I also think the government fully know this and its one of the reasons they have brought it in. Simple population control

It should be a disgrace to not provide food, heat and shelter for a child but the amount of parents who leave that to others is astounding.

I welcome any change that makes the parent and not the state responsibie for the child they chose to have.

It used to be that when planning a child people worked out their finances, now a huge majority simply go to the benefits website to see what they will get. Most seem to have no clue as to what childcare costs then claim they can't work due to that.

Level the playing field, remove all child related benefits and instead put the money into the NHS and schools were we all benefit not just a sub section of society. Much better use of taxes and people are free to reproduce as they feel like as only they will be bearing the costs.

People who aren't on benefits limit their family size - I would guess 50% or more of mumsnetters woudl love a third child but stop at 2 as they cannot afford it. There is nothing wrong with that. Also we are fairly over populated. Presumably most posters agree it is a good thing most women on here don't have 12 - 14 children like my ancestors in about 1900 had on both sides of the family.

gilly "a true reminder" you do realise "Cathy Come Home" is not a documentary?

The sense of entitlement of some people on benefits is shocking.

@FloggingMolly clearly you are not in this catagory. So an MP on £74k is cleverer than a University lecturer on £36k or a secondary school teacher on £24k? Go pet your chihuahua and come back when you have a social conscience.

OCSockOrphanage- Oxford and Cambridge are full of very clever academics that earn very little. Earnings are not linked to intellect (Donald Trump!).
I wish the large families good luck in the future, not long before far more hungry children will be coming into schools.

Bonnyscotland - I think you're confused. I'm writing a paper on a similar topic but I'm not the OP.

@TeaCake5 - straight out of a tory pamphlet without no justification.

I am not sure that cleverness actually earns money (though some anecdotal evidence and experience suggests it helps) but I am fairly certain that it is a combination of ability, drive and opportunity that succeeds in life. I would place myself as centre left, and yes, I believe in a safety net, rather than cradle to grave benefits. And I am over 50. That makes me guilty as charged. But not wrong either.

teacake

What are you on about

Who is being entitled?

Space you sound a typical champagne socialist. Hth.

space83 I was answering Fourbeasts, who seems to value unborn "British nationals" over migrants.

The key word was "generally"...

You can bet the Oxford and Cambridge dons who are earning very little have some private means, asparagus. They are most certainly not applying for benefit topups because their stipend is too close to minimum wage.

Maybe we'll spend all the money the government will save on this by building some nice orphanages instead of spending it on useless fripperies lie a Trident replacement.

That the abortion rate will go up doesn't worry me overmuch, the fact that a number of those won't be through choice does.

I also wonder how much longer contraception and abortion will be free now that May is aiming to sell off chunks of the NHS to the US post-Brexit. However, as it's not going to be the women congratulating themselves on their cleverness on not needing benefits to survive who will be the ones with the coat hangers being used on them, it doesn't matter much. It's only stupid poor people, and there's always more of them.

Dixie would be covered because the cap only extends to children born 12 months after the new rule was announced.

dixie

I agree, if dh popped his clogs i would have been collateral damage

Ds1 has just turned 18 though

I think everyone that earns under 50k should go on strike, remind these people who we are and what we do for the country. We are your teachers, nurses, fire brigade, police force, supermarket workers, hair dresssers, nursery workers, tutors, bar staff, cleaners, mechanics, university lecturers, air cabin crew and most service staff. We are the ones that need the help when things go wrong and need our children fed whilst we get back on our feet. We are not worthless scum that deserve contempt for having children. We get the raw end of the deal because the government just want to help the pensioners, for their votes. You would miss us if we all stopped working.

Just need to make sure i dont have any more

Haven't got through the entire thread yet but hrs a very specific circumstance.
Family friend had baby no1, planned. Baby no 2, also planned for, turned out to be babies nos 2 and 3. No worries, her DH had a good job. When the twins were 4 months old, he was made redundant as the business he worked for closed. He has now got another job but the pay is shit. They are struggling, big time. She has gone back to work but nursery fees are crippling.
In these circumstances, cutting any money is going to cause a massive strain. And the point is, they did plan. They just didn't plan for twins and redundancy.

Not a pensioner and half of a company whose workforce would be out of a job if we stopped working. Our combined earnings and profits put us a little above the £50k mark, but 10 families depend on us to make their lives work. We are very small business people, not ruthless plutocrats.

Gosh @TeaCake5 I do love it when the stereotypes come out. A 'typical champagne socialist' Read that in a book did you? No. I have not enjoyed a luxurious lifestyle, I am however enjoying a modestly prosperous one after a lot of deprivation and I would hate to think that during those times of decreased means I had to have an abortion based solely on that. I have improved myself whilst being a single mother, coming from a 'broken' home, found my soulmate and married him, and enjoy a job comes with a professional income and title - I haven't claimed benefits, nor sought to see if eligible. I get by.

I would also champion the rights of each and every individual to make the best of their lot - hell, if I didn't do the job I do, then I'd love to go into politics and improve society whilst not taking the £74k salary and instead investing back into society and capping it at £26k - which is the supposed national average but many don't even get that.

Babybythesea-nobody does. Life just happens and hurts people. I don't want children going hungry. I hate these cuts, it is the children it will hurt. I wonder how many people on here supporting the cuts, were at one time, or are just a marriage break down away from the need for financial help from the state.

Is an interesting thread. I've been using contraception for 20 years and haven't had any scares or accidents but I'm not saying it doesn't happen. I truly believe though if you dont want to get pregnant you will use any means possible, which is free, to make sure it doesn't happen. We are only now in a position to afford a baby and I'm 35, hopefully I will conceive but if I don't then we will cross that bridge.
How can anyone not give any thought to how they will afford a child , I've worked hard all my days and never claimed a penny.
How much are tax credits, excuse my ignorance. Thanks