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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think friends are being over-senstive?

999 replies

pomadas87 · 20/02/2017 18:51

A friend (who lives abroad) messaged me and a couple of our good mutual friends - he shared happy news of his new baby and some pics. Everyone v excited and wished him congratulations!

He then said "so who's next to have a baby - she needs a playmate!" ... me and DH are newly married and are getting the question quite a lot...! Other friend said "I'm looking at you guys" (meaning me and DH)...

I then said "not for a while I'm afraid Grin why don't you have another one straightaway and you'll have Irish Twins - instant playmate!"

Meant it in a joking way and then they all called me a racist, xenophobe etc.... I didn't realise it was offensive and now I'm feeling shitty! Did they overreact to my (stupid) joke or am I just an idiot?! Confused

OP posts:
OMGyoumustbekidding · 23/02/2017 21:51

Here is a paragraph from the "urban dictionary" website

"All the definitions on Urban Dictionary were written by people just like you. Now's your chance to add your own!"

TheWinterOfOurDiscountTents · 23/02/2017 21:53

Same definitions are all over the internet.

OMGyoumustbekidding · 23/02/2017 21:54

Ok then you win. I hope it makes you a happier person.

TheWinterOfOurDiscountTents · 23/02/2017 22:05

Being right does yes. Does defending the use of phrases knowing that they offend or irritate the people they are about make you happy?

OMGyoumustbekidding · 23/02/2017 22:25

Read my previous posts. I have never defended people knowingly using a phrase to hurt others. I have advocated that if someone uses a phrase in ignorance to tell them why it is offensive and if they use it again they are an arse.
I have asked people to stop and reflect on their behaviour when they treat people differently based on their nationality. No individual is responsible for the behaviour of their government, or organisation associated with their country unless directly involved.
It seems that blame is aimed in one particular direction and I feel that anything which is negative can easily be pinned on the people belonging to that nation. I am not telling you how to feel, but do not be surprised if a group of people, who mostly look upon you in a positive light get sick of it. Every Irish person I have ever met has been lovely. Many people on this thread are also lovely, intelligent and decent. I am leaving this thread as I like to continue to think that way. I refuse to think any other way and will continue not to blame any individual for the behaviour of a minority.

TheWinterOfOurDiscountTents · 23/02/2017 22:35

We're lovely so we're not allowed to complain when you say that Irish people probably invented the rude things about themselves?

I have no idea what you are wittering about.

Lookit, its not complicated. It's a phrase that is clearly and obvious rooted in a negative stereotype, and that a lot of people don't like. Use it, don't use, like it, don't like it, no-one really cares. Just stop trying to make it something else.

OMGyoumustbekidding · 23/02/2017 22:43

I had to google it. I spent my childhood in england and I will tell anyone who does use it that it is shit if I ever hear it used.... even if they are not english. If they are irish then it's up to them.

We do not know where the phrase originated, things were shit for irish people, some english people were involved in that and americans. We do not know where this particular phrase originated from. I'm just saying that it seems easy to blame all english people for the actions of a few and some will say things that they believe to be the actual meaning of the phrase not even knowing the history behind it. Ignorant... yes. Evil..... no.

OMGyoumustbekidding · 23/02/2017 22:53

That is why I jokingly said that everyone should take all horrible pharse that they don't like and blame them on another nation... because once we have identified a big bully it is easier to blame everything on them right? Two wrongs do not make a right.

OMGyoumustbekidding · 23/02/2017 23:13

Guilt leads people to accept things they shouldn't and only perpetuates the situation. It allows the victim to continue to blame even where blame is not attributabe to the oppressive nation. I personally am not guilty as I like Irish people, however I am sure that there are a few horrible ones. National guilt actually leads to very positive stereotyping within nations, such as imagining an entire nation of people to be lovely, funny etc. and to feel devastated for any past oppression they may have suffered.
The only problem is that one day it begins to wear thin. The people that blame is apportioned to are no longer the people that caused the oppresion in the first place and resentment will prevail.
I would use the lovely, funny, cute stereotype to my advantage.

Celendine · 24/02/2017 01:00

Anyone has a democratic right to call oneself a twin .I don't like being called one and find it offensive. With a family tree of NHS Irish midwives I would feel foolish calling myself a twin but that's me.

TheWinterOfOurDiscountTents · 24/02/2017 01:40

We do not know where the phrase originated

It's either England or America, nowhere else. Which one doesn't matter. All I'm hearing is "how dare you say anything about English people, it was other English people who did all the bad things, not English people now"...which frankly is kinda dickish.

Heebejeebees · 24/02/2017 01:49

Fucking hell... OP wasn't trying to offend.

I don't find that term offensive.

Some people do. Some people don't. I think most don't.

Some people are professionally offended.

Surely look at the intention, which wasn't to offend.

I do wonder how some of you upthread would deal with a proper issue?

TheWinterOfOurDiscountTents · 24/02/2017 01:51

So some people are offended but they can just fuck off because you're not?

Good to know.

Hmm
Heebejeebees · 24/02/2017 01:55

Did I say that? No.

Some people don't know it's offensive, so when they use it they aren't being offensive

In real life there are people bring abused physically, in wars, starving, etc... Grand scale of shit to happen, this ain't up there!

TheWinterOfOurDiscountTents · 24/02/2017 01:59

Pretty much.

And at the tired old "don't you know there are wars on, anything you complain about is ridiculous" nonsense. Some of us have the brain power to care about the big things AND the little things, all at the same time!
I know, impressive, isn't it?

BillSykesDog · 24/02/2017 01:59

Did anybody watch the Trevor Philips show tonight? About 'offence' stifling debate?

Heebejeebees · 24/02/2017 02:02

The winter... I'm just bored of moany mums! Got bigger shit going on ... And people that moan about shitty stuff like this get my goat. Call me put all you want but this ain't black slavery we're discussing. It's a misunderstood issue. Night

TheWinterOfOurDiscountTents · 24/02/2017 02:02

No. But offence doesn't have to stifle debate, just look how in this very instance it has triggered a debate, where lots of people have learned new things.

When people complain about offense stifling debate, what they sometimes mean is I don't care if I'm being offensive, I would like you to shut up about your feelings so I can talk about mine instead.

TheWinterOfOurDiscountTents · 24/02/2017 02:03

I'm just bored of moany mums! Got bigger shit going on ... And people that moan about shitty stuff like this get my goat

Then what the fuck are you doing in AIBU, of all places? Confused

OneWithTheForce · 24/02/2017 02:09

Is this the entry thread for most dismissive post of the year?

BillSykesDog · 24/02/2017 02:22

When people complain about offense stifling debate, what they sometimes mean is I don't care if I'm being offensive, I would like you to shut up about your feelings so I can talk about mine instead.

No, actually, I don't think they do. Offence has become a means of controlling public discourse and stifling debate on things that the 'offended' would prefer not to debate.

Being offended by 'Irish twin' is harmless in itself, but it's part of a larger whole which does seek to police language and scare people into silence especially on issues like nationality and cultural differences.

There is actually historical evidence re Irish Catholics having larger than average families so presumably closer together. Something that's declined since Vatican 2 when everybody ignored the Church. And I know from my own extended family that even rudimentary contraception (withdrawal) frequently wasn't used in Ireland for religious reasons in the past and it was an issue for a lot of people.

My MIL had two sets of Irish twins and for all the cries of 'offensive stereotypes' you do have to wonder what is a stereotype and what is something rooted in observation of fact which had become a recognised shorthand and colloquialism.

Does Irish twin imply all Irish people have large families and don't use contraception? No. Does it imply that they're something frequently identified with the Irish? Yes. But does that have root in facts - yes it does.

KERALA1 · 24/02/2017 07:42

By that logic terms like "P* shop" would be just fine Hmm

OMGyoumustbekidding · 24/02/2017 08:22

P* shop is not fine and is another example of expressions rooted in fact. It was a description of a newsagents which at the time were often owned by pakistanis.

However, if it fell out of popular use so much that nobody used it any more then would it be acceptable for all individuals from a specific nation to be held responsible for it for ever, even if we are not sure which nation coined it.The Welsh? The Scottish? The irish? The english? .

I think that it would be better to just tell people it is offensive if we hear it and people will eventually just not use it.

OneWithTheForce · 24/02/2017 08:25

Fucking hell bill! Shock

DianaMemorialJam · 24/02/2017 08:31

Do you hear that One?! You're not to be offended you hear me?! Now get back to drinking your pint of Guinness and off with ya Wink

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