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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To dare speak about Vaxxed on MN?

496 replies

thegoodfight · 20/02/2017 14:37

NC for this but a regular.

So I've just watched the documentary Vaxxed. I know how vaccine threads unfold on MN, so I'm ready to be told IABU however I feel like everyone should see this whatever your views - it's about the cover up around studies into autism and MMR

There is an admission from a CDC insider that he worked on the study and hid data which proved a link (a strong an quite frankly astounding one) and the data was sent to an external biologist who saw it for himself. There are first hand accounts from parents, scientists, doctors and politicians. The CDC haven't denied anything or called their lawyers despite it being an allegation of the biggest medical fraud ever (not exact words but something along those lines)

I just can't believe it's not been in the news! AIBU to ask if anyone else is planning to watch it??

OP posts:
Applebite · 21/02/2017 11:21

Mega - some people (not anyone posting here, but on other threads/Sites) seriously suggest that drug manufacturers want people to be sick to make money out of them Hmm. Shame there isn't a vaccine against stupid!!

OurBlanche · 21/02/2017 11:28

A bit of both Mimi Some of your objections make so much more sense within your familial situation. But some of your posts are quite determinedly anti vaccination and I wondered if your familial situation was key, as it is for so many people who are seemingly anti vaccination.

Applebite · 21/02/2017 11:31

Agreed, blanche. And yet despite the fact that her posts do come across this way, Mimi still says, so must therefore believe, that she isn't anti-vax, she is just in favour of everyone doing research.

OurBlanche · 21/02/2017 11:34

Thanks, Apple I took some care over the phrasing of that Smile

BertrandRussell · 21/02/2017 11:39

Apparently drug companies discovered the cure for cancer ages ago (Tumeric. Or apple cider vinegar) and suppressed it because ......well because.

OurBlanche · 21/02/2017 11:41

No... it was petroleum companies that hid the design for engines that run on water!

Applebite · 21/02/2017 11:44

I honestly think people don't realise how they come across sometimes. If you say, "you can't just trust a dr, do your research", it is already implicit in that phrase that one should not trust the drugs, whether you mean to come across that way or not!

SherlockPotter · 21/02/2017 11:48

Nope.

I'm pro-vaccine, why risk it?

noblegiraffe · 21/02/2017 11:50

It's very frustrating when you get people saying "I've done my research" then linking to some shit like Mercola, which you see a lot.

Applebite · 21/02/2017 11:53

You have only got to see on this one thread that people read the same things and read them very differently. It's a minuscule example, yet it highlights the problem with doing your own research!

MimiTheWonderGoat · 21/02/2017 11:55

I wondered if your familial situation was key, as it is for so many people who are seemingly anti vaccination.

Of course it is key to me having done research, and thankfully not after the event of vaccine damage (not necessarily autism) to my child, which sadly is what sparks many people into doing research.

Out of (genuine) curiosity, can you quote something I've posted that comes across as "quite determinedly anti vaccination"?

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 21/02/2017 11:58

I suspect that what hackmum was referring to is the general feeling among the medical profession and society at large that to criticise vaccines is taboo in a way that criticising Calpol (for instance) isn't. The pejorative and often aggressive language directed at anyone deemed to be an 'anti-vaxxer', and the rush to discredit anyone who attempts to highlight that vaccines also carry risks (which are much more significant than is often portrayed), or that sometimes they aren't that effective, even if that person is an associate editor of the BMJ, is evidence of this.

I found the BMJ article refreshingly balanced, and I agree with everything hackmum says. My experience of HCPs is that they will often refuse to acknowledge the down sides of vaccines, and I know from other threads that others have found the same.

sotiredbutworthit · 21/02/2017 12:06

Hackmum. Have you ever seen a child with measles/ mumps? It's horrific. And kids (healthy kids) die from it. Your argument is quite frankly ridiculous.

Jux · 21/02/2017 12:10

Is there a study pulling together figures for:
a) children who had mmr and have been dx with autism against total children who had mmr
b) children who had singles and have been dx with autism against total children who had singles
c) children who had no vax and have been dx with mmr against total children who had no vax

for, say, 1997- 2004, in the UK.

I kept asking for a study to be done along those lines through the whole shenanigans of late 90s/00s, and no-one, including apparently interested MPs (T Blair et al), even acknowledged my question.

The figures must be there by now. If those figures were released I'm pretty sure the whole thing would just go away.

OurBlanche · 21/02/2017 12:13

Out of (genuine) curiosity, can you quote something I've posted that comes across as "quite determinedly anti vaccination"? It will be the same for my posts Mimi I am determinedly pro-vaccines, and being active in knowing about such things as they affect us, including being critical of research. Similar mindset, different opinion/conclusion.

It is an overall tone rather than a specific sentence, the mindset as visible via our postings.

Jux · 21/02/2017 12:14

Sorry, meant ..... c) children who had no vax and have been dx with autism against total.....

OurBlanche · 21/02/2017 12:20

That would be fine Y0uCann0t if there were any perjoratives here... or that the rush to discredit were based on anything official, formal, meaningful. As it is here the argument is based on individual opinions... see the interaction between Mimi and myself.

We disagree, we have discussed, got a bit heated and still are managing a genuine discourse to see if we can come to some understanding both of the other's point of view and to see ourselves more clearly.

That HCPs deny the downsides of vaccines is a thing to take up with them, their line manager as you meet it - strenuously - as no one with even a modicum of common sense should ever suggest that there are no side effects to any vaccine. Which is why, as far as I remember without reading back through the whole thing and other similar threads, no one here has suggested it!

Applebite · 21/02/2017 12:46

"But not research done by the same companies who are peddling their own drugs" - it's this sort of language that makes you look anti, mimi.

If you had said "peer reviewed research by scientists unconnected to the development of the vaccine", it would have made the same point but without the cynical/conspiracy theory/anti-vax slant that it appears to have.

hackmum · 21/02/2017 12:53

Sotired: "Hackmum. Have you ever seen a child with measles/ mumps? It's horrific. And kids (healthy kids) die from it."

Not only have I seen a child with measles or mumps, I've been that child. When I grew up in the 60s, just about all children caught measles or mumps.

"Your argument is quite frankly ridiculous."

I think, with respect, you probably haven't understood it. "Youcannotbeserious" has paraphrased it quite nicely, if that helps. Or you could try reading what I wrote again.

peggyundercrackers · 21/02/2017 12:57

Hackmum. Have you ever seen a child with measles/ mumps? It's horrific. And kids (healthy kids) die from it. Your argument is quite frankly ridiculous

yep ive had mumps, and no there was no issues after they were gone. frankly your argument is ridiculous, yes kids die from mumps and measles but its very rare, in fact the stats show you there are things you do on a daily basis which means you are more at risk doing that than you are from dying with mumps or measles. if you go onto your local NHS trust web site they should publish how many children die of these diseases, I think you will find the figure is extremely low if at all any have died from them in the last 5 years. I know for a fact that in the trust catchment area we live in no child has died from either of these diseases in the last 5 years.

OurBlanche · 21/02/2017 13:00

When my parents grew up in the 40s and 50s nearly everyone got measles, etc.

Happily, in the 60s when DH and I grew up, vaccinations were given in schools, to all pupils, so very few of us got them, and those that did were nowhere near as ill as the generation before had been.

I speak as one whose MMR was followed very shortly by eye rolling and that cough. DH was also a child who had a short term reaction to the vaccine. Both sets of parents went on to vaccinate their younger children because what they experienced as parents was far less traumatic than that of their own parents.

MimiTheWonderGoat · 21/02/2017 13:00

Applebite, I actually used language such as "peer reviewed research by scientists unconnected to the development of the vaccine" on another thread but got shot down for not having the necessary qualifications to know what I was talking about, or something similar. When I explained my qualifications and experience I was then ridiculed for thinking I was better than everyone else! Can't win really.

OurBlanche · 21/02/2017 13:03

I know for a fact that in the trust catchment area we live in no child has died from either of these diseases in the last 5 years. And I know for a fact a few areas were that is not the case. I also know that death is not the only lifechanging outcome of measles. 1 in 15 children who contract measles gets a serious health complication.

1 in 15 are not odds I would expect any parent to be happy to risk!

Applebite · 21/02/2017 13:05

Mimi - it's the internet. There are no winners and certainly no prizes! My point was simply that you clearly believe you are pro-choice, but your posts do read as if you are anti-vax.

As for peggy in fact the stats show you there are things you do on a daily basis which means you are more at risk doing that than you are from dying with mumps or measles - and the stats show that you are even more at risk of nasty complications from mumps or measles than you are from an adverse reaction to the vaccine! so what's your point?

noblegiraffe · 21/02/2017 13:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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