To wonder why my 14 year old is unable to....

[tovelitime]

Put any of his dirty clothes in the washing basket in his bedroom but can only put his dirty pants and socks next to the said basket. It drives me utterly insane and when I mention it to him he looks at me like I'm utterly insane.

Ravenmum that's a great idea and I'll give it a go thanks

I realize that I am about to be accused of being a feminazi funsponge, but surely there is nothing that says patriarchy more than men thinking it's OK for them to leave pee on the loo seat for a woman to clean up?

Why aren't they ashamed?

Animals and birds keep their nests clean. I cant get my head round why men think its ok to treat women like their slaves, or live in filth.

Why aren't they ashamed?

Well the ones that do it do so because they don't register the women in their lives as equals. They'd be ashamed if their male friends saw/had to deal with it because they are on the same level of the hierarchy as they are. But the women don't count. They don't care what they think.

On the other hand, not all men/boys do it. It largely depends on the expectations the women (and other men, but largely women if it's the women dealing with it) in their lives have of them.

I am a lone parent and I expect my children to play an equal part in running the house to me. I had a friend many years ago who was also a lone parent and by the time her son was 7, she was already referring to him as "the man of the house" and he was afforded special luxuries and allowances as a boy. I dread to think what he'll be like now he's 18.

Jesus, Bertrand, don't even use 'feminazi' in jest, as you did there. You won't know me as I name change every week or so, but while there has been the odd thing on which I've disagreed with you, I generally think you should get the Mumsnet equivalent of a medal for engaging in rational, generally good-tempered debate with people who are clearly not used to hearing someone articulate a rational feminist POV at all. I don't know what netherworld these people are living in or what forms of misogyny they have internalised in order to present as they do, but you have considerably more patience than I do, and you are a public education resource on here.

Incidentally, on the loo seat thing, there's a brilliantly awful scene in the new Gwendoline Riley novel where a a monstrous bully of a father repeatedly calls his visiting student daughter out of a room in front of a friend of his and sends her up to the bathroom to 'clean up', although she can't see anything wrong in there. Eventually she lifts the seat and sees two pinhead sized drops of dried blood. When she comes back down, he keeps asking her if it's all gone, then tells his friend 'Women just aren't naturally clean, are they?'

Bertrand you are not wrong. I have suggested he pee in my hands instead of the toilet as it shows contempt imo. Or if not that, at least a view that seconds of his time are so much more important than seconds of mine. It's never him though, it's always ds (and of course sometimes it is). I think I need a proper "this is a deal breaker" talk rather than just picking him up on each instance. Ironically he views himself as pro- feminist, and in many ways he is.

It's not a boys' issue. DD16 is the same -- clothes everywhere! Yes it bothers me a lot, but not as much as having to nag her. So I just let it go. She is a lovely kid in every other way.

Just can't bring myself to do the "each one does her own load of laundry". I'd feel too guilty. Right now, 4 of us, I do 2 full loads a week, sometimes just 1! Also, suspect DD13 would end up doing DD16's laundry...