To think my Dad has been radicalised?

[Februaryrat]

My Dad was a teacher back in the day. A Guardian-reading, mostly apolitical teacher.

He has a (hate to use the word) redneck friend in the USA whom he Skypes regularly, and whom I believe has radicalised my Dad. Over the last three years, my Dad now believes:

• Climate change is a hoax (obsessive hatred of windfarms)
• Hilary Clinton is a murderer
• Brexit is the way forward because some of "them" (mostly Romanians when pushed) are committing 70% of offences around here (they aren't) and the press isn't allowed to report on nationality of offenders (they are)
• The NHS is being brought to its knees by health toursits
• Trump is a businessman who is likely to give the USA exactly what it needs, and will be re-elected to great acclaim at the next election.
• The Mexican wall is a good idea
• Why don't more Muslims condemn terrorist attacks?

I am a hard-left feminist, who is finding it harder and harder to have conversations with him that don't end in mud-slinging.

His "source" of news is often what I would consider to be conspiracy websites. I am willing to accept sources of news from anything I consider reputable - and would consider any mainstream media including (spit) the Daily Mail, but the websites he comes up with seem to me to be run by nutters spouting nonsense.

As a previous teacher in a subject where critical thinking and reading was key, it astonishes me that he isn't able to see past the bullshit - but perhaps he thinks the same about me in my left-wing bubble.

Anyone else's parents been radicalised? Any hope, or do we just have to stick to conversations about the weather now? Shit, we can't even do that because of climate change.

But op you do understand many so called tory voters are swing voters who also would have voted for the other parties at some point? I find it hard to take anyone seriously with such entrenched views. Especially coupled with I assume naivety to claim to be hard left. Hard left are scary scary people think over sixty million slaughtered, just a static, think gulag. Etc etc. Why would you boast this, align yourself with such awful people like stalin and Lenin then berate your poor old dad for views that in comparison are very mild!?

Also the guardian is a very narrow paper, maybe your dad has realised this. I used to read it through uni etc , everyone told us too. I was proud to read it. Then as I got older the scales fell from my eyes and I realised it's narrow focus is as bad if not actually far worse than the daily mail. The mail emphasises and goes ott about what's happening on the ground but the guardian doesn't report at all what's happening on the ground. Scary stuff and it's begging for money now, people are realising it's not this great read anymore.

The mail emphasises and goes ott about what's happening

The Mail...dog whistle journalism, playing to its audience, deliberately 'othering', blaming others, using groups to sell headlines...

Also the guardian is a very narrow paper

Whereas the Mail goes into great detail on world events, in depth analysis, gets a range of views, perspectives - and doesn't do click bait headlines.

There's plenty of decent sources out there to get a range of views. Then there's the Mail and the Express. The Express had its usual headline about house prices today. One of its regulars..

I've grown up with a father with similar views, so I understand the frustration.I find it interesting that the general consensus is that you become more right wing with age. I've actually gone further left ....as has my mother. Left wing politics is a far more varied spectrum than some people would imagine.

I think that it's a natural progression due to age and personal experience. I started off very leftwing, a teenaged banner waving feminist vegan, and have now settled into the mid-forties middle ground. I think as you get older your views are less black and white and you recognise common sense regardless of whether it's origin is Tory or Labour.

Most young people are leftwing, a product of our education system's current bias combined with the glorious idealism and energy that comes with youth, that desire to right the wrongs and change the world. By the time you hit your forties then a kind of dull acceptance of circumstance and general ennui dominates for most folks, you lose your vigor and roll in submission to show your belly, c'est la vie!

I am still a feminist however, albeit a third gen one these days.

The mail emphasises and goes ott about what's happening on the ground

No, it doesn't, it tells outright lies about what it claims is happening on the ground, which is probably precisely why the Guardian doesn't report it.

Most young people are leftwing, a product of our education system's current bias

Go on - can you expand on what you think it is about the education system that creates left wing children?

Most young people are leftwing, a product of our education system's current bias

And have you got any actual evidence about this bias?

My observations of my own children and their friends have led me to this conclusion amisparticus.

Likewise, I mentor young people and have yet to meet a right-wing one.

Can't provide you with any links or research I'm afraid, but this is my opinion based on my own experiences.

I believe the correct phrase to insert here is "your mileage may vary" and I'd guess your experience differs to mine, yes?

SleepOhHowIMissYou, I agree that people's political views change according to age and experience, but I don't think that explains someone uncritically accepting all that conspiracy theory garbage. Seriously, how can anyone with half a brain think the Mexican wall is a good idea? Do they not realise that ladders and tunnels have been invented, and that you can swim round and fly over walls?

For what it is worth, I was pretty right wing conservative in my youth - it was a straight product of my upbringing (to this day my mother thinks the only thing wrong with Thatcher was that she could be a bit of a wet Liberal at times) and being educated in a naice but fairly useless private girls' school. My views started changing when I started working in a field where you cannot but realise that vulnerable people regularly get shat on and how bloody wrong that is. So I've gone the opposite way from what people traditionally think is the norm, and in fact I'm not unusual amongst people working in the area in question.

I'd argue your dad is right about some things and wrong about others.

What do you want from him exactly? Complete agreement with your point of view? Do you demand this of all your friends and family? If so, how boring to only want to interact with people who join you in your echo chamber.

My view would be that your dad is wrong on climate change. Hillary Clinton, although not a murderer technically, was a senior member of a government that dropped over 26,171 bombs in 2016 alone, so hardly innocent either. Health tourism is an issue. Maybe not as big an issue as he thinks, but an issue nonetheless. Trump will not be re-elected. The Mexican wall is a waste of money, but hard borders are not always a bad idea. Islam, like all religion, is a disease of the mind, and if you were to look at results of any polls conducted in western Muslim communities regarding subjects such as homosexuality, apostasy and terrorism the results are sadly pretty damning.

Disagreement and debate are what push us forward. Rather than being upset about it, and 'only sticking to conversations about the weather', you should embrace the challenge. My guess is your dad is fundamentally a good man, and as his opinions have changed over time, they can also be changed again.

SleepOhHowIMissYou

People like to say this to me all the time. My response is always "Well when they're doing history, maybe they realise that returning to policies loved by the Nazis isn't necessarily a good idea."

Students are more left-wing because they've generally studied history and seen that right-wing divisive politics and otherism generally lead to war, hatred and disaster.

For those saying the BBC is balanced

evolvepolitics.com/report-reveals-biased-bbc-has-high-dependency-on-the-conservatives-for-statistics/

It may not be in a way that you agree with but he's entitled to believe whatever he likes

He can believe what he likes. Sometimes though, your beliefs are wrong.

and if you were to look at results of any polls conducted in western Muslim communities regarding subjects such as homosexuality, apostasy and terrorism the results are sadly pretty damning

You mean the polls where they only ask Muslims who live in areas that are mainly populated by Muslims (as it's much easier to find people to sample) what they believe - so you skew your sample - and then twist the answers to represent your narrative?

www.theguardian.com/media/2016/mar/26/ipso-sun-print-statement-british-muslims-headline

But print the apology in a small column a lot later so the headline soundbite is already out there?

Amispartacus

You do realise your argument is basically the more densely populated an area is with Muslims the worse their views are?

Like I said, religion in all its guises, is destructive and leads to irrational behaviour and views. Unlike most on the left at the moment I don't suffer from the soft racism of low expectation that many others seem to when it comes to Islam and Muslims.

I thought that currently, young people were economically to the right of older people?

It's only on cultural issues that they are to the left.

I am a liberal. But I think that, to a certain extent, this situation has been generated by liberals' unwillingness to discuss certain matters, shutting conversation down immediately as "racist" or "feminist".

How Western societies should deal with massive immigration from Third World countries is a serious question. Thinking about how to deal with it with limited resources is not racist or xenophobic. It's realistic.

Or, the Muslim veil and clothing reflects the notion that women should be "modest" and cover themselves, and no, it's not the same as nuns (because for nuns it has no sexual connotations - they can take their veils off). The question of how this conflicts with Western views of women's sexuality is a legitimate one. Personally, I think that Muslim clothing is repressive and backwards, and should be discouraged. That doesn't make me a racist.

By suppressing discussion on questions like these and enforcing a set of "standard" views, we have played straight into the hands of populists and fascists.

shutting conversation down immediately as "racist" or "feminist"

Not "feminist", obviously!!

It's very depressing. I have an Irish background and when I hear people spouting crap about others internally I'm seething thinking "You said this about us too and used as an excuse to nick everything" or, if from same background "You do realise it's the same old shite right?"

People are scared and depressed by our own troubled histories. FWIW, I do think there are conspiracies. However, it's more a huge corporate collaboration on a simply massive scale among the more fascist establishments of all our countries - Saudi Arabia , neo-Nazi control types , Israeli rightwing rather than any one community.

Amispartacus - Are you of the opinion that the mass molestations and rapes of NYE last year also did not happen in Germany & Austria? There are still some deniers around, you know. MN has about 10 Cologne threads if you want to check anything out. Perhaps reality does not fit your ideology.

He sounds exactly like the Mail Online comment section!

Are you of the opinion that the mass molestations and rapes of NYE last year also did not happen in Germany & Austria

I was quoting the Express which was more than happy to print a headlines story about an incident which did not happen because it was a story that fitted their view of the world.

The fact that you chose to deflect by asking about the other incidents INSTEAD of discussing why the Express chose to publish this fake news is interesting.

www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/02/14/german-police-say-major-newspapers-story-about-a-rampaging-arab-sex-mob-was-wrong/?utm_term=.1ebef04b5d04

Why do you think the Express chose to print this story in big headlines?

Perhaps reality does not fit your ideology.

Perhaps the Express decided that story fitted their ideology.

FACTS matter. Don't they?