To think my Dad has been radicalised?

[Februaryrat]

My Dad was a teacher back in the day. A Guardian-reading, mostly apolitical teacher.

He has a (hate to use the word) redneck friend in the USA whom he Skypes regularly, and whom I believe has radicalised my Dad. Over the last three years, my Dad now believes:

• Climate change is a hoax (obsessive hatred of windfarms)
• Hilary Clinton is a murderer
• Brexit is the way forward because some of "them" (mostly Romanians when pushed) are committing 70% of offences around here (they aren't) and the press isn't allowed to report on nationality of offenders (they are)
• The NHS is being brought to its knees by health toursits
• Trump is a businessman who is likely to give the USA exactly what it needs, and will be re-elected to great acclaim at the next election.
• The Mexican wall is a good idea
• Why don't more Muslims condemn terrorist attacks?

I am a hard-left feminist, who is finding it harder and harder to have conversations with him that don't end in mud-slinging.

His "source" of news is often what I would consider to be conspiracy websites. I am willing to accept sources of news from anything I consider reputable - and would consider any mainstream media including (spit) the Daily Mail, but the websites he comes up with seem to me to be run by nutters spouting nonsense.

As a previous teacher in a subject where critical thinking and reading was key, it astonishes me that he isn't able to see past the bullshit - but perhaps he thinks the same about me in my left-wing bubble.

Anyone else's parents been radicalised? Any hope, or do we just have to stick to conversations about the weather now? Shit, we can't even do that because of climate change.

I have never been harassed by a Muslim man and I live in what is now a pretty Muslim area. Was harassed by lots of old white men in my teens and even molested by a young one at the age of eight.

I have never been harassed by a Muslim man and I live in what is now a pretty Muslim area. Was harassed by lots of old white men in my teens and even molested by a young one at the age of eight. I now live in what is a pretty Muslim area. All those things said about them were said about us too :(

Sorry for double post. MN said first one didn't go through.

Yes, I guess it depends on the community. Everyone here is mostly Turkish. The weird thing is my aunties said they were harassed (mildly - catcalling etc) when travelling in Turkey in their younger days all the time but not here.

Mimishimmi, that's awful, sorry to hear that.

When you say 'all those things said about them was said about us too' do you mean that you are a person of colour?

The issue that's being discussed here is that some (not all) Muslim men target white girls and women as they believe they are lesser than them, the term they use is kafir. To excuse a crude term, it is not common practice to shit where you eat.

This is an interesting article;

Child molester given longer sentence as victims are Asian

Judge right to give West Yorkshire paedophile tougher sentence as Asian sex abuse victims suffer more than those who are white, Appeal Court rules

She stated that the victims and their families had suffered particular "shame" in their communities because of what had happened to them.
Additionally, there were cultural concerns that the girls' future prospects of being regarded as a "good catch" for arranged marriages might be damaged.

Lawyers for Ul Nasir, 32, of Liversedge, West Yorkshire, argued at London's Criminal Appeal Court that his sentence had been unfairly inflated. But their complaints were rejected by Mr Justice Walker, who said: "The victims' fathers were concerned about the future marriage prospects for their daughters.

"Judge Cahill was having particular regard to the harm cause to the victims by this offending. That harm was aggravated by the impact on the victims and their families within this particular community".

Full article here. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11871975/Child-molester-given-longer-sentence-as-victims-are-Asian.html

The way forward is equal treatment for all. Equal opportunities for all. No exceptions.

*wow youve already called me a liar stubbornstains"

What, shins, by asking you to provide links to back up the assertions you made? This, you call accusing someone of being a liar? I'm afraid this is only too concrete an example of the right wing's "debating" tactics- slur, then pout.

Anyhoo, I Googled the article by Gaby Hinsliff that you refer to. Since you didn't provide a link, I'll link it here myself, because I think it provides an interesting read:
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/08/cologne-attacks-hard-questions-new-years-eve

I don't think it really shows any kind of "white liberal tolerance" for sex crimes , whether committed by Muslims or not; quite the opposite, in fact. She does explore why "white liberals" might feel a little uneasy at expending energy in energetically condemning a crime that has already been hijacked for so much political capital by an unsavoury bunch of racists. But then she goes on to point out that we mustn't let that stop us from condemning a crime like that.In short, I would say that the article rather disproves your point than supports, it, shins. Er......you have read it, haven't you ?

You also asserted that the fact that there hasn't been a conviction for FGM since 1985 as proof of the general uncaringness of "white liberals". Yep, all those "liberals" like Thatcher, Major, Cameron (don't know what Blair would call himself) running the country at the time.....

You said my Muslim female friends were "convenient" which is a rude disrespectful thing to say, implying that they don't exist. If you can't see how disgraceful Gaby Hinsliff was, I can't be bothered engaging with you any more.

Oh and the law, which is to protect girls and women, was enacted during Thatcher's rule. The intervening years have been a mix of Labour and Tory. I have no idea what kind of garbled point you're making there either.

I'm posting again in the hope that I can express myself better. For certain reasons for many years I've kept newspaper cuttings highlighting child abuse. Here's one,

“When I worked in a children's home in West Kirby in the 1970's, Jimmy Savile came to visit. One of the housemothers was told not to let him unsupervised on the girl's unit. At the time we thought he didn't want to be on his own with the kids – that he wanted a member of staff to talk to. We had no idea. We were so naive. I wouldn't have known what a paedophile was.” Paul O'Grady, The Independent, Saturday 20 October 2012. p20.

The phrase, 'one of the housemothers' is deceptively chilling. Who told the housemother, was it a quiet word from a manager or from general gossip amongst the staff? Whatever, but someone knew, and obviously more than one person knew, accepted it, developing strategies to avoid anything too nasty. People knew and did nothing.

If abuse was relatively rare in the UK then I could accept the reason nothing was done in Rotherham was because the authorities were afraid of being racist. But, as we now know, it wasn't rare, they didn't want to do anything, because no-one ever did anything anywhere. It was the norm not to do anything.

And I would go as far as to say it's been part of our culture for a long time and nobody would do anything about it. The racist bit was an easily accepted excuse. Senior people knew, it may have been tough to do something about it but that's what they get paid for.

At least something is being done
www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/colleague-sick-stomach-ex-councillors-12227179

But is it enough?

2012. In a small town in the West Country two men are in court accused of 'penetrative assault' with children. In mitigation, the defence solicitors argued 'X realised he had a problem' and 'Y … realised matters had got out of hand'. Someone wrote to the local paper, 'a problem is forgetting to defrost the bread, not committing a heinous sexual violence on a seven year old girl.' Exactly, the legal profession at its best, eh?

I'm angry about Cologne. I'm angry about Rotherham. I'm angry that child abuse and domestic abuse (two women a week die) has been tolerated for so long and in a country that wants to consider itself Christian. Apparently, it hankers after those Victorian Values when Britain was described as great – and child prostitution was at its height.

Please don't let the religion of the abusers get in the way of ensuring we really do something though I recognise that false accusations are not helping. A social worker and teacher were charged, not sure if they went to prison, and were later proved innocent.

Paul Gambaccini is another example and my previous quote about Frankfurt fuels discrimination and sadly diverts attention from UK crimes.

He shuts off from anything that gives an alternative view

There are alternative views and there are actual facts. If someone points to a survey and says - here is my evidence that I am using to prove my statement, then they should be prepared to listen and accept that that evidence has issues when pointed out to them. The Romanian crime wave is a classic one - and so many things can be argued about the headline statistic and the reality.

But it is hard for people to say they made a mistake and that their use of a survey may well be wrong.

Then there are people who like to express opinions on subjects without having anything but a gut feeling. When asked if they can persuade someone to share that opinion, they can't find any actual convincing evidence to support it.

Petronius Knowledge about Savile was out there but known by a few who could not tell anyone. I remember reading a letter to a newspaper after Savile had died, saying that when she was a senior nurse at the RNOH in Stanmore Savile was keen to see one particular young girl patient, but this nurse lied to him and said she was sleeping and should not be disturbed. At that moment, his affable, smiley face changed to one of thunder and he continued on his 'tour' knowing he had been scuppered.

I also remember Harriet Harman for one had links to the Paedophile Information Exchange in the 80s, and other MPs were actual members. I remember seeing her a year ago talking about this - and of course it's all denial about understanding what PIE was all about. Utter rot. I remember reading something about PIE c.1985 and it was crystal clear what their aims were.

PIE

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/10659100/Harriet-Harman-Jack-Dromey-Patricia-Hewitt-and-the-Paedophile-Information-Exchange.html

It was the norm not to do anything

Yes and No. I heard rumours years and years ago that Savile like little boys - not quite accurate. The BBC knew but perhaps not the extent. The Police in various counties knew though.

With regard to the grooming and seduction that occurred in Rotherham-Rochdale-Oxford-Derby-Bristol et al these were double offences imo. They were hate crimes as well as rape & exploitation because the rapists racially profiled the girls. I believe there were one or two West Indian girls, but the rest were white.

Hopefully those not born in the UK will be deported. They have already used millions from the public purse for their trials and appeals, and their low-life lawyers tried every way which to get them off the original charges and revocation of citizenship.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4207256/Rochdale-grooming-gang-deported-appeals-rejected.html

I'm not a person of 'colour' - I'm Irish. I look southern European. We know exactly how this war on terrorism shenanigans play out. They want to invade countries and nick stuff - when you do that you need to demonize a community in the media, call their young men rapists and murderers, that their medieval religious values threaten your way of life, fund and arm the true crazies among them and create the crises used to justify the bigger geopolitical ambitions. Certain groups who are supposed to be enemies will act in cahoots to achieve this

mimi It's a Yes and No to your statements. Unfortunately, there is a significant number of people here and in Europe who do not want integration, prefer separatism and think we (esp. women) and our ways are inferior.