To think my Dad has been radicalised?

[Februaryrat]

My Dad was a teacher back in the day. A Guardian-reading, mostly apolitical teacher.

He has a (hate to use the word) redneck friend in the USA whom he Skypes regularly, and whom I believe has radicalised my Dad. Over the last three years, my Dad now believes:

• Climate change is a hoax (obsessive hatred of windfarms)
• Hilary Clinton is a murderer
• Brexit is the way forward because some of "them" (mostly Romanians when pushed) are committing 70% of offences around here (they aren't) and the press isn't allowed to report on nationality of offenders (they are)
• The NHS is being brought to its knees by health toursits
• Trump is a businessman who is likely to give the USA exactly what it needs, and will be re-elected to great acclaim at the next election.
• The Mexican wall is a good idea
• Why don't more Muslims condemn terrorist attacks?

I am a hard-left feminist, who is finding it harder and harder to have conversations with him that don't end in mud-slinging.

His "source" of news is often what I would consider to be conspiracy websites. I am willing to accept sources of news from anything I consider reputable - and would consider any mainstream media including (spit) the Daily Mail, but the websites he comes up with seem to me to be run by nutters spouting nonsense.

As a previous teacher in a subject where critical thinking and reading was key, it astonishes me that he isn't able to see past the bullshit - but perhaps he thinks the same about me in my left-wing bubble.

Anyone else's parents been radicalised? Any hope, or do we just have to stick to conversations about the weather now? Shit, we can't even do that because of climate change.

You do realise your argument is basically the more densely populated an area is with Muslims the worse their views are

Have you got any FACTS to back up that statement?
Any well thought out, balanced, impartial surveys to back it up?

OP - when you say you're a hard-left feminist some would think you've been radicalized just as much as your dad.

+1

If you were my daugter I'd disown you.

Even with my fat fingers! Daughter!

Megatherium and BabyCham, again, your mileage may vary. We are all the products of our own experiences and upbringing.

In common with most young people, my teens and twenties were occupied with leftwing ideology due to my personal circumstances at the time. As I've aged, and as my knowledge developed through work experience (particularly in the public sector), faced with the rather depressing realities of life, my thinking has moved to the grey area in the middle.

As far as history is concerned, I'm pretty sure no-one here is (or would) defend fascism, likewise there's no-one defending Stalinism either. No extremism is good.

The OP's father, as a free-thinking individual, has every right to believe whatever conspiracy theory he wants, after all, a lot of people believe there's a big guy sitting in the clouds watching us, and that there's the beauty of a free society.

I have less of an issue with people believing in God - whilst it hasn't been proven, it hasn't been disproven. Things like climate change have been definitively proven with scientific fact, so I don't see how people can really believe otherwise - that's when I start to hate the "well it's a free country!" argument. Sometimes people are just being thick and need to be told that.

That's my point really. I can't see that the merits of the Mexican wall, for instance, can really be a matter of opinion: the fact that it will be massively expensive for minimal if any benefit is purely that - a fact. If I go round saying that I'm planning to build an enclosure for all those pink elephants flying around in the sky, that's not evidence of my opinion, it's evidence that I'm lying or deluded. The fact that a person previously capable of critical thinking has started swallowing this nonsense hook, line and sinker is a matter of legitimate concern.

If you were my daugter I'd disown you.

What a lovely thing to say

I honestly don't know where some people get off on this kind of crap.

Seriously Rainmaker - you would disown your own daughter for having different political opinions from you?

I'm so glad you're not my mother.

My Dad was always quite right-wing and low-level racist, but recently he's becoming increasingly hard-line and spouts incredibly racist views practically every time I see him. I put it down to a combination of his age (almost 80) and his increasing reliance on Russia Today for news.

I'd like to be able to not discuss politics, but he seems to be able to turn almost every conversation into a rant about immigrants and how wonderful Putin and Trump are. I saw him for 15 minutes recently when he came through to drop something off and he managed to get in a dig about immigrants. He lives in rural Scotland and I'm pretty sure has minimal exposure to immigrants (apart from possibly at the many out-patient appointments he and my mum go to) but to hear him talk you'd think there was a refugee camp in his garden.

I have tried not engaging, but he needles away, and I have tried calmly arguing back, but he doesn't take that well. I think we're at the point where we have to clearly say that certain language is unacceptable in front of our children, and if he carries on we will no longer be visiting. The specific flashpoint last time was referring to his female Muslim MP with an incredibly derogatory term. The children were outside at that point, but I am not going to let him do that unchallenged.

DF knows my views on the Daily Mail and its politics - however he was Remain so I wondered what he thought of the DM coverage and if he's had any conversations with friends on the subjects...

It is a fascinating subject about how we - as humans - form our opinions and how we are influenced to form them. We do live in an information rich age but there are filters applied - both from us, the media itself and the views we are exposed to.

It's also interesting in a social media world how opinions and agendas can be pushed - I do wonder in the recent referendum campaign how much 'influencing' and nudging was going on - along with fake news and some posters pushing certain views relentlessly.

redwinewhine

Amispartacus

You do realise your argument is basically the more densely populated an area is with Muslims the worse their views are?

Like I said, religion in all its guises, is destructive and leads to irrational behaviour and views. Unlike most on the left at the moment I don't suffer from the soft racism of low expectation that many others seem to when it comes to Islam and Muslims.

Absobloodylutely. Me too red.

And totally agree with you DistanceCall

Yes Mega, quite. And while I wouldn't disown my daughter for making nasty personal comments to people on the internet she'd never met, which could cause untold hurt and pain.... I'd tell her to have a long hard look at herself, and think about the kind of person she wants to be.

I am a hard-left feminist

Oh dear. Looks like you've been radicalized.
I bet your dad's really worried about you. Maybe hopefully he will start a thread about you on Dadsnet

Any 'hard' anything is too much.
Look in the mirror and have a hard look at yourself first before throwing accusations at your parents.

Most young people are leftwing, a product of our education system's current bia

I agree.
A lot of very young people are at an age where they don't yet have the responsibility of having to run a home, pay bills and manage a family.
They only have themselves to look out for.
It's easy to have lots of 'ideals' when you are only responsible for yourself and don't have lots of bills to pay.
Once real life starts to happen, the majority get a massive wake up call, namely -

Despite the brainwashing,
The world isn't run on Fairy Dust and Love.#

Like I said, religion in all its guises, is destructive and leads to irrational behaviour and views. Unlike most on the left at the moment I don't suffer from the soft racism of low expectation that many others seem to when it comes to Islam and Muslims

There is an argument that a survey carried out in an area where you have a lot of Muslims / people of a certain faith who have decided to live in an area with people like them is NOT representative of people of that faith as a whole.

If you asked questions of a 'group' who all happened to live in an area densely populated by people of that group (even though many members of that group live in many other less densely populated areas), you can't say that the answers from that group you asked are representative of that group as a whole.

Most young people are leftwing, a product of our education system's current bias

Can you expand on that - what evidence have you got / what are your reasons for that statement?

What bias have you seen in the education system?

And this is the problem BabyCham and Megatherium, you both view your opinions as fact, when they are not, and your minds are closed to any opinion that differs from your own.

Megatherium, you see no benefit in Trump's Mexican Wall, therefore feel it's a "fact" that there is no merit. However, clearly the millions who voted did see the merit, so therefore your fact is an option. An opinion that we have in common actually.

BabyCham, I also agree with you vehemently on climate change but others do not. For every "fact" you spout, the deniers will spout a contradictory "fact". However, you can't live in a free society and inflict totalitarian thought control on people who don't agree with you.

Life, as I've come to learn in my middle age, is all about balance.

My Dad is a wee bit like this, but he has always had traditional views - he thinks girls shouldn't play rugby and that Muirfileld was right to stop women joining, for example. He's fairly tolerant or other races or religions, probably because he doesn't come across any in his every day life as he lives in an almost exclusively white area of Scotland.

FIL though is a total bigot and always has been. He is simultaneously racist, sexist, homophobic, anti-semitic. He makes comments about "migrants" constantly although I doubt he's ever met a refugee or someone classed as a "migrant". He slings about the most horrific racial slurs and thinks it's acceptable, then gets huffy when DH or I pull him up on it and tell him not to ever say he's "off to the pki shop" or "having a chky" for tea or referring to someone as "the n**er in the woodpile". In one ear and out the other though, he's not a very pleasant person.

Amisparticus, what evidence can you provide to show that this is not the case?

Sleep, you've misread my post. I didn't say "no" benefit, I said "minimal" benefit. It's a significant difference. We don't actually know whether that is why the people who voted for Trump chose to do so. What substantial benefit can anyone genuinely believe it carries?

Most young people are leftwing,

It's because they're more innocent and have less responsibilities in life.
They want to look after everybody and anybody and sod the expense.

A simple/crude example would be to liken it
it to a child wanting a puppy.

A child who wants a puppy will only see the positives:

Cute puppy
Someone to love.
Walks
Cuddles
Fun and Games

An adult, having lived in the real world for longer (and having had more life experience) knows that along with the positives to having a puppy, you have to also look at the bigger picture:
There will be:

Vets Fees
Insurance
Picking up of Dog Mess
Disposing of dog mess.
Regular Walking
Bathing
Bedding, Bowls, play equipment
Food.
Puppy won't stay a puppy for long
Obedience Training.
Boarding fees when you go on holiday
Expense and more expense, for the next decade or more.

Amisparticus, what evidence can you provide to show that this is not the case

That's a strange response - if you make a claim, generally it's good to have some evidence to support it. It's not up to someone to prove that is not the case - YOU need to provide evidence to support your case.

Unless you were just making a statement without evidence. Just a gut feeling. Like Trump does.

But it's your gut feeling that I'm wrong isn't it Amisparticus?

Can you expand on that? What evidence have you got? What are the reasons for that statement?

Wait, I thought the left-wingers were the elite who were secretly running the country? But now we're naive children wanting puppies with no experience of the real world? Gosh, it's so hard to keep up these days.