To think my Dad has been radicalised?

[Februaryrat]

My Dad was a teacher back in the day. A Guardian-reading, mostly apolitical teacher.

He has a (hate to use the word) redneck friend in the USA whom he Skypes regularly, and whom I believe has radicalised my Dad. Over the last three years, my Dad now believes:

• Climate change is a hoax (obsessive hatred of windfarms)
• Hilary Clinton is a murderer
• Brexit is the way forward because some of "them" (mostly Romanians when pushed) are committing 70% of offences around here (they aren't) and the press isn't allowed to report on nationality of offenders (they are)
• The NHS is being brought to its knees by health toursits
• Trump is a businessman who is likely to give the USA exactly what it needs, and will be re-elected to great acclaim at the next election.
• The Mexican wall is a good idea
• Why don't more Muslims condemn terrorist attacks?

I am a hard-left feminist, who is finding it harder and harder to have conversations with him that don't end in mud-slinging.

His "source" of news is often what I would consider to be conspiracy websites. I am willing to accept sources of news from anything I consider reputable - and would consider any mainstream media including (spit) the Daily Mail, but the websites he comes up with seem to me to be run by nutters spouting nonsense.

As a previous teacher in a subject where critical thinking and reading was key, it astonishes me that he isn't able to see past the bullshit - but perhaps he thinks the same about me in my left-wing bubble.

Anyone else's parents been radicalised? Any hope, or do we just have to stick to conversations about the weather now? Shit, we can't even do that because of climate change.

He's still a rabid left-wing feminist

What comes first, being a leftie feminist or a lack of understanding of English?

rabid - having or proceeding from an extreme or fanatical support of or belief in something.

Alternatively, Do you really believe that extreme and fanatical support of anything is positive? If this is the case then you're really beyond help.

would rather die than vote for the Tories

I'm not a betting woman but would put a lot of money on short odds that this is a lie.

My dad was a full on socialist and still is to a large degree but has become more conservative in his outlook as he's aged. He is totally islamophbic but is fine with immigration. He thinks it's ok to make racist "jokes" because it's just a joke and don't even get him started on feminist issues. The irony is he used to train civil servants, social workers etc in diversity, equality and race issues. He won't believe mainstream media about internal political issues but he believes them when it comes to hating muslims and he genuinely fears they're going to attack. I've lost count the number of times we've fallen out over his blatant racism and discrimination and I try to just make displeased grunts these days when he tries it. It's just really odd as he's so anti UKIP, anti trump and egalitarian in every other respect. I'm quite ashamed of his backward looking fears and his refusal to listen to reason on any of it.

All I will say 'februaryat,' is whether you like it or not, everyone is entitled to their own views, and your father isn't 'wrong' about anything. His views are just as valid as yours ...

Nope. All views are not equally valid. Views that are based on well researched facts from reputable sources are more valid than those based on distorted hearsay from media sources with a distinct agenda.

Not all views are valid. A racist opinion is never valid and should always be challenged. I might say "Black people are more likely to be criminals, that's my opinion and I'm entitled to it" but it is demonstrably untrue and racist. Do you really think it should hold equal weight to "black people are not more likely to be criminals"? These views have actual impact on people in real life.

^^ Absolutely this.

I haven't RTFT but I was having a conversation touching on this with my mum the other day. She's in her 60s I'm in my 30s. We both work in healthcare particularly with older people and those with MH problems

Something we both noticed is that old people seem to become less tolerant as they age and this often allies itself with racist etc views. In the 70s older people got more scared of the Irish and now they get scared of muslims.

We both think this is something to do with vulnerability - it's the same fear they have of going out at night, being pickpocketed, scammed etc and they read things that play into the current fear of the times. This is anecdotal but it does reflect what I see - particularly when looking after people with dementia. It doesn't make it acceptable but is an interesting way of trying to empathise.

Tbh OP the more I read posts like yours the more right wing I become.
Life is very complex and at the moment uncertain. I read both the DM and the Guardian. Their articles are equally biased. In a childish way.
One change I have noticed is the tone of the comments. The Guardian ones get more right wing and reactionary every day and there are more people on DM comments section denouncing Trump.
and what Tinkly said

This is why Corbynites keep getting called out for posting quotes from far-right websites

The NHS is being brought to its knees by health toursits. Nope, by red tape and centre-left governments.

Um, what?

Citation needed before I believe that crap

I read both the DM and the Guardian. Their articles are equally biased

So why bother? Why not read something at least a LITTLE bit more impartial?

So why bother? Why not read something at least a LITTLE bit more impartial? Cos I'm lazy, their websites are easy to read and I don't want to kill trees by buying actual newspapers. Hope that's OK for you.

I am frequently shocked by the Guardian comments; I am sure many of them are written by goady fuckers rather than your actual traditional Guardian reader.

Hilary Clinton is a rape apologist?

I've heard it all now :)

I am sure many of them are written by goady fuckers rather than your actual traditional Guardian reader. You're probably right. They certainly hate Meryl Streep.

My 74yo dad is about the same lefty as ever, but my step mom is lurching to radical left. My mom did the same hard left lurch. Is it something Dad puts in their water? My dad's twin & wife are also lefties. Most their siblings have gone right or even hard right, though.

My problem is my son who is slurping up alt-right propaganda. Irk, I need a game plan but still in development.

The OP didn't ask if her father was entitled to a view that differs from hers, she expressed concern that someone who used to think critically has slid into uncritical belief in obvious nonsense. I understand that, it worries me with my dad too. It would be the same if someone who had been a critically thinking right-winger slid into nebulous pseudo-Marxist theory, but without the weight of a newly elected US president behind them.

As for "feminism's won so shave your armpits"

"I've changed my views on things like multiculturalism. I used to think we had to respect other religions and cultures. Now I think that if a religious or cultural practice oppresses people then it should be opposed."

I don't think that's a left/right question though - I'd say those on the left (not liberals) are as if not more likely to oppose a repressive cultural practice as compared to those on the right.

I think what tends to get forgotten is that the Guardian is at heart a paper representing a certain type of metropolitan liberal left viewpoint, not a socialist paper. It was the case when the SDP split off from the Labour party way back when, and it has become very evident again now.

I believe the DM has a lot to answer for and it's not limited to the older generation. People I previously thought were tolerant, reasonable and intelligent pre Brexit and Trump seem to be more vocal on the ideas and rhetoric spouted in the DM. I know someone who thinks Muslims are trying to take over the world and fully supports Trump because the DM said so.

I have no problem with people having different views and opinions but if the only source of the information forming the opinion is one paper known for unreliable sensationalism then this I have a problem with.

Both PIL and older work colleagues are avid DM readers and I have been shocked at some of their comments in particular about 'bloody foreigners'. When I have pointed out I am a foreigner I get 'oh we don't mean you, you're not like them' i.e. you're white and speak English

Does this help OP

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/frankfurt-mass-sexual-assault-refugees-fake-made-up-bild-germany-cologne-new-year-allegations-a7581291.html

Thinking of someone else elderly who seems to have gone left...
My champagne socialist mom used to have raging arguments with her staunch Republican brother. Who is now 84... and firmly voted for Hillary last year. My dad never bothered to deregister as a Republican, but says about himself & my mom's brother "We didn't leave the Republican party, it left us."

"My problem is my son who is slurping up alt-right propaganda. Irk, I need a game plan but still in development."

Ooh, that's a hard one.... sympathies.

Maybe just accept they are his views and leave it at that. People with opppsote views to you aren't being radicalised and likely nor are they ill. What a conceited attitude to have.

Voting for Brexit = radicalised

Brilliant.

My Mum was an 'immigrant' in the 50s (as a child). She is not white. She makes comments (today we were ice skating in East London) like, "There's hardly any English people here, are there?" . She also nearly voted Brexit, but me and my Dad managed to persuade her not to. She did however, vote Conservative in the last election, much to the whole family's disgust. However, she would never believe the rubbish your Dad is. I think some of it is a 'getting older' thing. There is also generally a mistrust of mainstream media, by anyone on the fringe (some of it is with good reason). I think the mainstream (left and right) are reaping what we have sown. The Brexit/ Remain campaigns were classic examples of this, as well as the US Presidential campaign. Seems like 'Joe Bloggs' is not being treated like they can think anymore so they have stopped and will believe all manner of rubbish.

whoputthecatout - wise post. Me too.
This --> Politics is complex, arguments are subtle. To me it is all about what works, not what the label on the box is.

and this --> The older I get the less I believe things are straightforward

And PartyPolitics - this, I agree.
This thread is hilarious, anyone on the wrong side of 40 with any political leaning other than far left is developing dementia??? I've heard it all now.

You are right. It is also very offensive to anyone who is dealing with dementia - they have no idea what that is like. At all.

Cos I'm lazy, their websites are easy to read and I don't want to kill trees by buying actual newspapers. Hope that's OK for you.

Wow, defensive much?

I wasn't suggesting you buy actual newspapers. I'm pretty sure every news source in the world has a website these days. Just seems strange to choose two outlets both known to be hugely impartial.

My DM has always been right-leaning, but not strongly so. Then she discovered the Hate Mail and I swear it altered her thinking. She's since ditched it, thank god, but she has, imo, Islamophobia - literally, she is fearful, and yet we have a Muslim friend who she has met and likes very much, I just don't get it. Thankfully, she loathes Trump, so there's still hope.

This thread is turning into a nice 'bash the older generation' thread isn't it.