To think my Dad has been radicalised?

[Februaryrat]

My Dad was a teacher back in the day. A Guardian-reading, mostly apolitical teacher.

He has a (hate to use the word) redneck friend in the USA whom he Skypes regularly, and whom I believe has radicalised my Dad. Over the last three years, my Dad now believes:

• Climate change is a hoax (obsessive hatred of windfarms)
  
• Hilary Clinton is a murderer
  
• Brexit is the way forward because some of "them" (mostly Romanians when pushed) are committing 70% of offences around here (they aren't) and the press isn't allowed to report on nationality of offenders (they are)
  
• The NHS is being brought to its knees by health toursits
  
• Trump is a businessman who is likely to give the USA exactly what it needs, and will be re-elected to great acclaim at the next election.
  
• The Mexican wall is a good idea
  
• Why don't more Muslims condemn terrorist attacks?
  

I am a hard-left feminist, who is finding it harder and harder to have conversations with him that don't end in mud-slinging.

His "source" of news is often what I would consider to be conspiracy websites. I am willing to accept sources of news from anything I consider reputable - and would consider any mainstream media including (spit) the Daily Mail, but the websites he comes up with seem to me to be run by nutters spouting nonsense.

As a previous teacher in a subject where critical thinking and reading was key, it astonishes me that he isn't able to see past the bullshit - but perhaps he thinks the same about me in my left-wing bubble.

Anyone else's parents been radicalised? Any hope, or do we just have to stick to conversations about the weather now? Shit, we can't even do that because of climate change.

[GladAllOver]

What proportion of the UK population is Muslim?
Answer: 5%.
But the Wail delights in misleading on that one by reporting problems in areas where there are mainly Muslim communities, rather than in areas that have very few.

[SarcasmMode]

Whenever he brings up these things just say,"We've already spoke about this Dad. We have very different views so can we discuss something else?"

[amispartacus]

If you want a properly researched paper then go for a subscription to the New York Times. Brilliant paper and a subscription is £3 a week

The 'failing' NY Times - as Donald would put it - even though its subscriptions have increased.

I find facts are good - as is challenging data - it's surprising how 'facts' are not all the seem to be.

Opinions are one thing - but defending an opinion needs facts. It's too easy to look for facts that support your view and to ignore facts that don't.

More or Less is a great show where lots of facts used by politicians are scrutinised.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006qshd/episodes/player

The papers in this country are appallingly biased though.

[whoputthecatout]

I really struggle to understand how anyone can be extreme right or extreme left. Politics is complex, arguments are subtle. To me it is all about what works, not what the label on the box is.

Hitler or Stalin? Pol Pot or Mussolini? Both sides driven by implacability and a conviction that are right.

The older I get the less I believe things are straightforward. In many ways I miss the certainty I used to feel when I was in my 30s, 40s, 50s.

Life is so complicated. Good job I'm not in politics - I would be taking bits from Labour, bits from Conservatives, bits from Lib Dems etc.....
I am so utterly wet.

Am I the only one?

[FearandLoathinginLasVegas]

Im afraid I can't help you tolerate your dads opinions but the link below might help explain how he got there.
My mum is the same. Was very left, now comes up with opinions that are based on far right propaganda cartoons retired friends send round (subjects range from immigrants to migrants and refugees and other immigrants)..

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory

[SunshinenSparkles]

BeyondUnderthinking I love it lol so glad to find other people feel this way haha

[SansComic]

GladAllOver

Yet 12% of convicted rapists in the UK are Muslim.

Does that mean they're more than twice as likely to rape?

There are lies, damned lies and statistics. Hating a newspaper because it's the done thing or refusing to support a political party because you heard it's the right thing to do is as stupid as the OP's father's stance.

[RedSauce]

It's testament to how scarily powerful the media is. I know in OP's post there is an American friend, but in most of the other cases people are posting about here, it's largely a result of brainwashing by the mass media.

[Thetruthfairy]

During one school summer holiday I became addicted to reading chat magazines (£1 for a bundle of 5 in the local market. Bargin).
I was on the verge of depression after 6 weeks.
Imagine a life-time of daily mail reading. Shudder. You would be a shadow of your rational thinking former self.
My dad is getting the same way. He refused to take my mum to vote unless she voted to leave the eu. I talk to him about my kids and avoid other topics of conversation. It is such a shame.

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

No, whoputthecatout - you're not alone. I especially agree with your suggestion about nuances getting lost and that few issues are completely black and white

As I said, one type of extremism tends to breed another and IME neither are pretty

[GladAllOver]

Sanscomic
As you said, "There are lies, damned lies and statistics."
I do hate the Wail, because of its selection of stories and statistics to support the unpleasant opinions of its proprietor.
What research have they done to find crimes that are committed by less than the expected proportion of Muslims?

[crabapple34]

All I will say 'februaryat,' is whether you like it or not, everyone is entitled to their own views, and your father isn't 'wrong' about anything. His views are just as valid as yours ...

I disagree with this. Not all views are valid. A racist opinion is never valid and should always be challenged. I might say "Black people are more likely to be criminals, that's my opinion and I'm entitled to it" but it is demonstrably untrue and racist. Do you really think it should hold equal weight to "black people are not more likely to be criminals"? These views have actual impact on people in real life.

[SansComic]

They probably don't do any primary research. The 12% was from .gov.uk

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/324097/number-males-rape-muslim.doc

Hating the Daily Mail seems like a boring preoccupation for many people who ironically, frequently read it. See MN.

There are many more things you should focus on hating. The new roses wrapping for a start!

[randomer]

its rubbish but its valid and if you try to shut people up it just mutates

[HashiAsLarry]

My DPs are definitely more out and about with their intolerant views. DF always was, but DM used to be quite open and brought us up to judge people by their actions and not things they can't change about themselves. This apparently does not apply anymore. It really hurts. And I struggle to get them to STFU about it at times which I need them to do as DCs have people of different races and religions in their own family, let alone classmates at school.

[Sadik]

"I am in my 50s and I have noticed all of my elderly relatives are heading this way. "
Can I just put a word out for elderly relatives. My DF (80s) has gone from being relatively apolitical and not voting to being definitely on the left, and my DM (late 70s) from thinking that Tony Blair was probably quite a good thing for the labour party to the view that he was a dreadful mistake and the source of many of the UK's current problems because of his cosying up to big media/banks etc.
She is sceptical about large scale immigration from Eastern Europe, but on the argument that such immigrants drive down wages, because they are hard to unionise, will accept worse condtions because they plan to return home etc. Which you may or may not agree with, but IMO isn't racist bigotry.
(Both left school at 16 and we live in a rural area FWIW.)
I'm also in my late 40s and don't think I'm becoming more right wing either!

[Rugbyplayersarehot]

To b fair op the hard left and hard right are very similar people. Judgmental and i find simplistic and immature politically. They are generally pig headed too and dislike dissent.

It's a toxic mix.

[BeyondUnderthinking]

Those roses wrappers are not good. But at least they've put the coffee one back in!!

[BabychamSocialist]

It happens to a lot of older men, in my experience. It's because they're slowly losing their privileged status in the world that they've had and are now seeking a target that they can blame for that happening.

The Express, the Mail and worse are news sources for people who just want to be told that all the problems in the world are the fault of someone else and not them.

That the reason they can't get a GP's appointment is because of immigrants and not because people like them are in the doctor's for every tiny thing, wasting valuable resources. That young people can't afford housing because they just don't work hard enough, not because baby boomers have capitalised on cheap mortgages and better wages when they were younger and the reason young people are paid less is because they aren't as qualified, and not because the older generation forced them into universities with eye-watering debts which means that now everybody is vastly overqualified.

Luckily, my mum and dad see through this sort of crap and they're nearly 70. My dad even marched with me at the Woman's March the other week. He's still a rabid left-wing feminist and would rather die than vote for the Tories, so I'm happy.

[PigletWasPoohsFriend]

Not sure any 'rabid' political views are good tbh.

[VestalVirgin]

Hitler or Stalin? Pol Pot or Mussolini? Both sides driven by implacability and a conviction that are right.

I would argue that the men in power in communist regimes were not actually communists. The ideology in its pure form is opposed to a single person wielding that much power.

The problem with the crusades was not that the people were "too Christian" back then, was it?

The problem is not being radical, the problem is selfishness. Which often comes in a disguise of strong opinions, but I would argue is not actually the same.

[BroomstickOfLove]

My mum's the same. We spent our childhood at peace camps, on demos and Reclaim the Night marches and so on, and now she gets her news from Breitbart, posts on Facebook about the evils of Islam and the liberal elite and Iwouldn't be surprised if she voted for Le Pen.

It makes spe

[TinklyLittleLaugh]

I was a leftie Socialist Worker type in my youth. At 52 I've slid very much to the centre (my kids call me a champagne socialist).

I've changed my views on things like multiculturalism. I used to think we had to respect other religions and cultures. Now I think that if a religious or cultural practice oppresses people then it should be opposed.

I'm also less sure about immigration. I don't want to live on a shockingly overcrowded built up island. I also don't think it does developing countries much good if we just poach their brightest and best. I do have some concerns about dodgy eastern European criminal gangs..

Overseas wars. I used to think we should stand up for what is right in the world. Now I sometimes think we should just keep our nose out.

Reading that back I sound quite Daily Mail. I don't think I am (vote Labour or Green). But I feel that I've had 40 years of observing how the world works and it has made me quite cynical and protective of what is mine.

[BroomstickOfLove]

...spending time with her difficult.