You can read this thread anywhere. Even in a Florida resort. It's a secure thread. Trump cont.

[amispartacus]

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2852511-This-thread-will-see-you-in-court-Again-Trump-watch

I had a million thread titles to choose from....

However, they are Corbyn's (or at least momentum's) thing and they appeared to serve him well in September.

But Corbyn was in the middle of a leadership election in September. That is completly different to having rallies a matter of weeks after you have been elected with no election due for another 4 years.

The Southern Poverty Law Centre have taken a look at Trump's impact on hate groups & it isn't pretty: www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2017/year-hate-and-extremism

Rallies are a physical demonstration of popular support, but most leaders don't need to flaunt their popular support when they have just been elected.

I think psychopathy, narcissism etc are generally put in the category personality disorders rather than mental illnesses, of course these are all man made categories which can shift.

Anyway, is he bad mad or stupid?
Yes probably!

Yeah, remember the Long 19th Century, up to 1914?

I think we've just come to the end of the Shunted 20th Century.

Zebra yes, that was my original point. I was sure it WAS unprecedented in the US but wanted reassurance I had not missed some other occurrence c 1950 etc...

funny though, I had thought that TM rally could never happen as 'terribly un-British' yet, as merrymouse correctly points out, Corbyn had a fine old time with Rallies recently.
Perhaps it's just a personality thing?

hackmum re the DSM / Allen letter:
I suspect what he means is that most people with a dx mental illness are sufficiently obviously impaired that they would stand no chance of getting elected POTUS?
I DO think he is 'distressed'. I think the outward signs of this are shown AS his overweening need for rallies / adulation / HIS version of the truth however, rather than the stereotypical image of a distressed 'mentally ill' person rambling down a High Street, iyswim?

peaceout x post. Yes, the DSM categories and definitions have shifted a fair amount, quite a few times and 'personality disorders' are one of the most irritating categories as they are most vulnerable to subjective interpretation imo.

"Is he mad, bad or stupid? - Yes"

YES. YES. YES. oh, and very dangerous too. as will the 'legacy' be.

He's not floridly psychotic for sure

Gaining a position of extreme power would go to anyone's head though wouldn't it?
How long before cracks start to show and he spirals iinto a manic state, or becomes paranoid?

I've been keeping up semi-bigly with these threads and marvelling at the wit, wisdom and intelligence of you lot 👏👏👏👏 Truly the best thread. Period. THE BEST.

Thinking about the upcoming Nuremberg rally, did anyone read this very insightful Dave Eggers article while the Greater-Spotted Orange Tweeter was still merely The Candidate (O happy day)? Extremely interesting about the psychology, both of the supporters and el Trumpo. Eggers has him nailed, I think. The rampant egotism, the simplistic language, the craven need for constant acclaim (he also sounds not entirely with it, mentally, even then).

I continue to be stunned daily by what's happening. It really is The Emperor's New Clothes. Or maybe The Secret Life of Five Year Olds, only this five-year-old has access to the nuclear codes. It beggars all belief. I can't quite shake the feeling that this cannot actually be happening and that a grown-up will come along any moment and take charge.

It must be very hard to handle being a world leader, you must need to surround yourself with good trusted advisers, take good care of your mental and physical health, somehow stay 'grounded'

He's probably not doing any of that, power will do to him what the ring did to smeagul / gollum

pinboard and merry, lets not talk as if all rallies are the same. Most party leaders hold some form of rally during the pre-election period. All the US ones did and so do those seeking election to leadership positions in the UK. Corbyn had particularly large ones for the UK during the Labour leadership election in september, but that was a particularly unique circumstance. Do you really think Cameron and Theresa wouldn't have given their right leg to have crowds like that turn up to their pre-election speeches and meetings?

Corbyn's rallies in September in the run up to a leadership election can in no way be considered the same as those now being held by Trump after he has won and is 4 years before any further election.

Perhaps it's America that is ill, and Trump is just one of her symptoms?

Get well soon America

Heaven's I don't even like Corbyn. He is a wet fish with absolutely no ability to lead at all. But please don't start talking as if anyone who steps out of the centre ground can be compared to Trump. Trump is not dangerous because he is to the extreme right of politics, he is dangerous because he is seeking to dismantle the very foundations of democratic government.

peaceout
already paranoid I expect (see battles with intelligence agencies).
probably has bouts of manic energy and slumps of inertia
(the florida weekends? and the 'topping up' provided by rallies?

not floridly psychotic yet, I agree. Yet...
(falls straight into bear pit of online dx of public figure, which Allen so sensibly advises against)
Wallows. Rolls around a bit. Tops it up with hot tap. pours in a bit more bath oil. Replies 'I'll be out in a minute' to anyone who asks how much longer I will be. A bit like spending time on these threads, actually.

Ahem. As you were.

Corbyn's rallies in September in the run up to a leadership election can in no way be considered the same as those now being held by Trump after he has won and is 4 years before any further election.

I agree there is a big difference between having a rally during and after a campaign.

My point was that some UK leaders do have rallies, and, as with the PLP, the Republican party leadership don't have much room to manoeuvre if Trump still has popular support. If the PLP started to threaten Corbyn and Corbyn could still draw on popular support, I suspect the rallies would start again.

Do you really think Cameron and Theresa wouldn't have given their right leg to have crowds like that turn up to their pre-election speeches and meetings?

Corbyn won the leadership battle, but May is PM with very little opposition. I honestly think she is relieved that she doesn't have to do rallies. I suspect Boris would love a good rally though!

I've just read the BBC's summary of David Friedman, Trump's pick for US Ambassador to Israel:

"The right-winger is a strong critic of the two-state solution, supports Jewish settlement building and moving the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem.

Five former U.S. Ambassadors to Israel have written a letter to committee members declaring him unqualified because of his "extreme, radical positions", AP says."

That's scary! He's due for his confirmation hearing today.

peaceout

"Perhaps it's America that is ill, and Trump is just one of her symptoms?
Get well soon America"

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
it is a better way to look at it, perhaps, more useful to look at how 'society' in US atm, in Germany in 1930's etc gave rise to the circumstances that could allow this type of individual (mad or bad, but certainly dangerous to know) to come to power.

Cometh the hour, cometh the man, and all that.

Cometh the hour, cometh the man, and all that
Trump was summoned by the Zeitgeist, his tune was playing and he was compelled to get up and dance

At May's rally everyone would sit quietly, listen nicely and do as they were told. She might not like a shouty sign waving rally, but I think she would like lots of people to turn up and murmer about how terribly clever and right she is.

And all wear kitten heels and a nice suit

At Mr Canada's rally we would just all gaze adoringly

pinboard: "Is he mad, bad or stupid? - Yes"

That made me laugh. I think you've just about summed it up.

I find the idea that "most people with a dx mental illness are sufficiently obviously impaired that they would stand no chance of getting elected POTUS" a little strange. One thing we know about psychopathy is that it's no barrier to success - it's often said that plenty of CEOs are psychopaths. I can see what he's getting at, in the sense that Trump somehow functions well enough to lead his life, but you have to wonder whether he has been cushioned to a large extent by money. Suppose Trump had been born into poverty, what would he be doing now? Because he strikes me as being largely unemployable - he has extraordinarily poor judgement, he constantly tells lies, he overreacts to minor slights, he starts fights with people who ought to be on his side (like the CIA)...I can't think of many job roles where those qualities would be an asset.

BiglyBadgers re May rally

Trump was compelled to get up and dance but like the Pied Piper he is leading our children, not the rats, out of town

hackmum oh, ABSOLUTELY.
I've worked in a private hospital with patients who have come in for help with addictions (so, like the Priory, but ,not the Priory)
Not exactly the same issues to be sure, but it often struck me that had those folk been poor they would potentially be shuffling along with their belongings in a supermarket trolley, not sitting having expensive input.
(rather a sweeping statement but you get my drift)
Yes, many CEO's have psychopathic traits but not floridly enough to prevent them functioning in their chosen, very narrow, arena (which rewards psychopathic traits, arguably). Unemployable in other arenas tho.
As a whippersnapper, I worked for both Robert Maxwell and another big scale British fraudster. Both of whom shared traits with the orange buffoon.

One thing we know about psychopathy is that it's no barrier to success - it's often said that plenty of CEOs are psychopaths

True, but psychopathy is not a mental illness, more an extreme personality type

It can't be cured or treated, there are no drugs to alleviate the symptoms
violent unintelligent psychopaths tend to end up in prison
Those who are intelligent with good impulse control have an advantage when it comes to gaining positions of power