Pensioners now better of than working families - is this right?

[TeaCake5]

www.theguardian.com/money/2017/feb/13/pensioners-now-20-a-week-better-off-than-working-households

What do you think? I think that this is going to cause more resentment in the medium term.

Exactly, Lozamass.

I must say I am staggered by the young families I see on MN with sky high salaries. So many posters talk of one or each in a couple earning six figure sums. There is vast polarisation within each generation, and from my personal observation I would say it is the polarisation which has increased.

Polarisation increases resentment and envy more than actual wealth levels. Read The Spirit Level.

Plenty of people getting very rich on high bonuses, property and high salaries in the current generation. Look at who is paying their salaries.

At this rate dh and i will be booking a one way ticket to digitalis

Spot on Lozza. Be careful what you wish for.

I find this thread quite sad, the resentment and envy. What's shocking to me is that envy directed by some posters towards their parents. Unless they are vile tightwads, is that fair? Thank god my kids don't feel like this, they want us to enjoy our retirement.

Looking back my god I would've loved the chance to go to Uni. I was in a class of 39 of which 3 went to Uni, I left school at 15 and worked full time from that age. Very different expectations from kids that age now. Life was not all a bed of roses and why shouldn't I get a free bus pass when the time comes

I have no idea why posters on here try and compare. Life was different back then, but there was good and bad.

It just comes across by some that we should either give up our houses to young families or just top ourselves to stop receiving that pesky pension which I don't get yet. All very ageist and unpleasant in parts.

I can see from the responses on this thread that many posters are also of the baby-boomer generation.

I think this article just about sums up the position for most of us.

(I deliberately didn't shorten it so you can see the source before you click)

www.independent.co.uk/voices/housing-crisis-intergenerational-fairness-baby-boomers-millennials-inequality-pensions-pay-baby-a7578106.html

I posted previously about my parents (in their late 80's) having a better standard of living than I do. Things were tough for them for most of their lives, so I can't really begrudge them a comfortable retirement.

I have a reasonable standard of living when I was in my 30's & 40's, but I'm now reaping the fruits of inadequate pension provision (not entirely my fault). There have also been times I got into debt because unemployment benefit was far from adequate to live on, and certainly didn't pay the mortgage when the interest rate was 15%.

No-one can have it all.

Good article FineSally. Life is hard for many, what seems odd is the expectation that it isn't! I'm watching Victoria Derbyshire debating this with a woman saying she works in the pub at weekends as well as full time work. I did exactly the same in the mid 80s to pay off student debt!

I like "digitalis"..... fox glove poison cheaper than Dignitas....

Intergenerational strife rarely does much of us any good. Indeed jealousy of others never makes us happy either. That is why most religions have it down as a sin.

My grandfather left school at 12 and read and read and read. His first job was at a local chemists - drowing puppies humanely for people who could not afford the vet (no one else wanted the job). He moved on to selling horses and then clapped out wrecks of houses - he would auction the goods at public auctions. All his sisters had to work too even in those days. Most of us are better off than then (he lived with 26 other young men in a boarding house in the 1901 census and could not have my father and marry until late in life - he was 49 when my father was born). He did own his own house which today is worth about £120k in the NE of England. They were the "rich" side of the family. My mother's side were lucky to keep out of the work house. So for plenty of us we are all a lot better than those days.

What my grandfather tried to do by self education and reading all those books and his children who worked very hard at state school (two became doctors - quite a feat for that family) was pursue education and work harder than most people around them and it paid off. Not surprisingly it still pays off. Hardly anyone went to university from my school but I did. I never went out to the parties other people went out to. i just worked and worked at my studies. My daughters are lawyers not because of some kind of fairy privilege magic want but because they chose law rather than something low paid and put in the hours and hours of effort and studying you put in when all your friends are out having parties. it was not rocket science in the 1940s and it is not so now. It remains very hard now and will always be so but if you can decide i will make my own destiny. I will make wise often very difficult choices to a higher paid path you do have more control and tend to do better. That doesn't mean no luck ever plays a part but you can massive change the odds. My daughtesr have friends who went into PR or antiques or acting and of course most of those are impoverished as anyone of course cuold have told them and they may well be very happy - money is not the thing that makes most of us happy so good for them in making choices they like but they cannot come back later and say It's not fair I earn less because they made informed choices.

I've been following this thread and have smiled a few times as well as appreciated some of the latter posts. Our kids are surprised we haven't gone for equity release, we know we'll need something to pay for our care home - the one we were promised by contributing for so many years.

We'd love to down size to a bungalow but our small three bedroom terraced house is at the bottom of the market.

Although it didn't affect us at one time mortgages were 16%. All our lives we only had enough money to just about make ends meet and often our annual two weeks holiday was a cheap family ticket for daily trips to the seaside.

Someone the other day posted their combined incomes were £143,000 a year and were struggling to cope.

As someone sensibly posted none of us has much control over how the country is governed, I've never voted Tory, but many people did and for voted austerity. There are still people who refuse to buy their Council House on moral grounds.

We've bought up five kids, have eight grandkids and they have holidays that we could never have imagined at their time of life. Generally we manage one Europe holiday a year now.

As we all know the inequalites of life appear more pronounced but ever since Saint Maggie deregulated the City in 1986 it enabled some to become even richer and when she destroyed public housing the cheers could be heard all over the land, especially by Landlords. We have what the country voted for and still does.

However, the young among you will be better off as pensioners – we are better off than we were when we were working and bringing up kids.

Bit obvious really.

Liked the link FineSally

enormous

as i typed that i thought there was something wrong

Might book myself in now

My DF was treated with digitalis to regulate his heart, so it could equally well prolong the agony.

It often features on detective films and also m mother who did a lot of botany (one of her school certificate subjects actually instead of biology) and then grew a lot of plants and had an allotment would tell us all to beware foxgloves. www.thepoisongarden.co.uk/atoz/digitalis.htm

I don't think most of us still in full time work think we will be better off as pensioners. the idea the triple lock will stll be there is unlikely. Many of us are assuming we will work until we die without much of a state pension nor staet care. Even my father had to spend his life savings on dementia care at home in his last 18 months by the way despite working for the NHS for 40 years as a doctor. Those who save are penalised as ever.

Oh god how i dont want to do that

My parents are struggling to afford their sheltered housing complex apartment and it's not a fancy place at all. Many of their neighbours are the same. They live in a deprived town where rents are relatively cheap (dirt cheap to me as I'm in the south east).

The pensions triple lock will be going shortly, reports like this are pumped out to help soften us up for it. I think there will also be a big changes in the funding for social care, those who can afford it (or deemed to be able to afford it by the Govt) will be made to pay more, the debacle with Surrey Council and the NHS bed blocking issues have made this inevitable.
Yes some boomers will have had very comfortable retirements but it's not just about money is it? My parents died of diseases that if they had been born maybe 30 years later, they would have had much better chances of surviving given how much progress we have made in healthcare.

WWE are comfortable have savings and no mortgage when we got married only new thing in terrace house was bed . We went camping for holidays never went out for meals never went for coffee my oh worked 12days out of 14 I worked nights when kids were little . We never had credit what we couldn't afford we went without , cars were bought at auctions and were not fancy . Only way we got semi which by the way asnt got ensuite or second loo was because oh got made redundant and managed to get another job straight away be it low paid . I don't feel guilty now . I see young people who avnt any money but also see them driving 4x4 and having nails done and drinking and eating out frequently . Rich and poor have always been and will always be . We help our children so don't class everyone the same !!

Young people have a nice life too, getting pissed up every weekend, shagging who they want without stigma and holidaying in Magaluf every year. I bet some of the older generation wouldn't have minded a bit of that in exchange for some of their pension!

So go and do it now

Once the pension lock is removed, that's it. They won't put it back. So the generation who have done well are lucky to be in it, the next generation who haven't benefited will also be caught by it. So in theory they could be even worse off

I hate this idea that young people could afford housing if they only cut back on starbucks and a mobile. Do some people not realise the price of houses?

Where I live many of the houses are worth £2m+, several of which are owned by pensioners and it's funny because they are driving around in ford fiestas and the like but living in multimillion pound houses. Classic pensioner - asset rich and cash poor, yet getting a fuel allowance.
(Only slightly envious)

Just shows how distorted the housing market is in different parts of the country. Where I live the new retirement flats in the centre of town are about the same price as average family homes. Most pensioners would not be able to afford to "downsize".

Lots of pensioners have voted for a government that wanted cuts but it made cuts seem normal. They can't then be surprised when the cuts are turned towards them.

Lots of boomers on here have argued that the pension age being put up has meant that the deal has changed and that's not fair but they don't seem to see that the deal has changed continuously for other groups. My siblings expected free university - they got fees instead. I expected a grant but it was taken away in my second year. When I had a child there were tax credits but we no longer qualify. Lots of peers expected child benefit and no longer get it. The rights and wrongs of those particular decisions are neither here or there but other groups are used to change. When people vote for a smaller welfare system it will eventually affect everyone.

People don't like calling pension benefit, but that's what it is and always was. It was put in place to ensure those who were too old/frail/demented to work didn't starve and weren't homeless, the same as the dole is supposed to keep people off the streets. It makes no sense to give benefits to those who don't need them.

I would support abolition of the old age pension entirely for people aged even up to my age (55) even though I've paid NI continuously for 34 years without a single break always working full time (used 2 weeks holiday to have babies in and then back full time) and a change in law a b it similar to Germany to place responsibility for the old on their relatives if that is all we can afford as a nation.

My childern have bought in their 20s near or in London by the way. You can buy the same terraced house we bought 30 years ago in zone 5 London where I live for about £475k on two full time professional salaries before you have babies. My son bought further out at end of a tube line for £325k at the end of last year. £325k is quite a bit of course but as interest rates are fairly low even a repayment mortgage is not that bad. I am not saying it is at all easy of course particularly to save a deposit although may be people won't have to wait until they are 49 like my grandfather to have babies. My parents waited until married almost 10 years too before having babies as it was too expensive to buy a house otherwise. not new issues. My mother's mother of course never bought at all as she was too poor.

Many routes are being withdrawn as they only carry pensioners hence take no fare money.

Bollocks. The pass trip is paid for by the local council and thus the bus company does get their money.

responsibility for the old on their relatives if that is all we can afford as a nation.

What about those who don't have relatives to look after them

And very few Germans are in practice expected to support their relatives. The idea is preposterous.

Really? When carers are treated like this!

www.braintreeandwithamtimes.co.uk/news/15088302.Homeless_daughter_told_she_was____shutting_her_eyes_to_the_obvious____by_council_officer_after_caring_for_her_dying_mother/