Pensioners now better of than working families - is this right?

[TeaCake5]

www.theguardian.com/money/2017/feb/13/pensioners-now-20-a-week-better-off-than-working-households

What do you think? I think that this is going to cause more resentment in the medium term.

Yes, that's what I thought. So those public servants handmaking their clothes and working to a higher retirement age won't be taking the whole family in Caribbean holidays any time soon. So yeah, I can see why some would be pissed.

Congratulations Tricky! Lovely news.

Congrats tricky

I would prefer it if there were no public sector pensions - because then everyone could have a decent state pension - including public sector workers obviously.

Clearly never going to happen as MPs have public sector pensions.

On the worked hard point....I can't speak for manual jobs, but my parents (now mid 70s) both had white collar jobs and I get the distinct impression that most people worked 9 to 5 and no more, unless something exceptional happened. They pretty much admit this themselves by their total incomprehension that working until 6.30 or 7 is normal office behaviour these days. The pace of work was slower in a lot of industries; necessarily as comms were vastly slower and there was much less automation.
It's an interesting topic. I often find myself seethingly resentful of the boomers and have to really remind myself it's not that straightforward. And I don't envy those who will
Find themselves at the mercy of a decimated NHS and care system in the next 5 or 10 years. While it's easy to resent the unearned property wealth, in reality that will be spent on care if they want more than the absolute basics. God knows the generations coming up after them can't afford to pay for their care for them.

I would prefer it if there were no public sector pensions - because then everyone could have a decent state pension - including public sector workers obviously.

How would this work? Could you explain, please?

There would be no public sector pensions . Everyone would get the same generous state pension.

It could work perfectly well and if I were dictator it would happen.

It cannot happen because public sector workers would not vote for it and we live in a democracy.

Thank you very much witsender and Rufus. DH is home now and is equally delighted. We have drunk the health of Hugo and his very dear M, hoping all continues to go well.

Actually,public sector workers would vote for a generous state pension. Most public sector workers are in the Local Authorities pension scheme, which has been severely cut.

The people I now know in the best pension schemes, are in private industry, in big companies.

There would be no public sector pensions . Everyone would get the same generous state pension.

More detail needed. Would you also ban private sector pensions and/or would those in the private sector lose their sate pension?

Private sector companies can do what they want. However, very few private sector companies pay decent pensions anymore.

Public sector workers might vote for a generous state pension but would they vote for a cut in their pension to pay for it. Probably not and I don't blame them. It's human nature to hang on to what you have even if it is not fair.

Cakingbad Public sector pensions are contributory and the rights of the members are just as much property as money in NSI. Or privately owned houses.

People are living in a dreamworld if they think that the government reducing anything for some will then give more to all....

Getting - in my clumsy way, I am agreeing with a lot of what you say. Whilst DH and I are not 'well off', we are certainly in a better situation than my own parents and grandparents. My great grandfather spent time in a workhouse as a young boy and as an adult, like my grandparents and parents, lived in rented property his whole life. DH and I own our home. So, yes, we have more than they did. Sadly, I think my own two are going to be waiting for us to die before they will be able to amass the money needed to buy even a small flat in this area.

Oh how I wish I was enjoying a comfortable retirement! Because of 2 serious illnesses where both times compassionate employers sacked me ( before it became illegal)I lost my home. The mortgage company wouldn't allow part payment until I was on my feet again. I don't get a full state pension and the job I was able to get once fit and well again (I signed myself off the sick)paid peanuts compared to the two I lost. I eventually got back on the property ladder but meanwhile prices had risen so quickly that I could only afford a really small flat in a grotty area. I scrape by but consider myself fortunate because without the NHS I would be long dead.

What is all this nonsense about living through the war? My father was too young to fight in WW2. If he was still alive he would be 91 this year. Yes, he did have to do national service, which went on until, I think, the later 50's but that was not so traumatic for those involved. Most of the wealth held by older people arises from property prices increasing.

Don't resent it one bit. My parents and in laws are multimillionaires. I spend my energy aspiring to be like them, not in jealousy.

My father was too young to fight in WW2. If he was still alive he would be 91 this year

Tbf he would have only just missed it.

What is all this nonsense about living through the war?

Even though your dad wasn't conscripted he would still have been a mid to late teens so I assume he still 'lived through the war'

ExConstance: in our family , this 'nonsense' of living through the war includes :
My parents, both alive now, one had the family home bombed out, one was evacuated, lived with strangers, lost one parent, so life was hard from then on. Did National Service. Neither parent inherited anything, their parents had been reasonably 'well to do', from blue collar mine worker and shop manager families, but the hardships and aftermath of the war on their grandparents (Ww1) and parents (both wars) meant there was no property for my parents to inherit.

My Dad did national service.

They did buy a house. It did rise in value. My Dad has a modest (tiny£ annuity, that dies with him. Thr equity in the house is being used to fund care for their post stroke / dementia difficulties.

This 'nonsense ' also includes my Jewish aunt, who remembers the Nazis searching the house while she hid in the chimney. She came here alone on Kindertransport, not knowing if she would see her parents again. She did, they got out, but now she is old and alone she lived in terror every time the door goes. My cousins pay for a companion for her, again drawn down from equity release.

All that nonsense.

Living through the war was horrendous for our parents - bombs raining down on them, not enough food, people killed. The idea it wasn't awful is hard credible!

We could say nurses, teachers, local authority workers etc do not get a pension other than their state and auto enrolment pensions certainly . That might save a bit but it's the protection we've given to state pensions from the cut backs which young families have suffered which is the main current unfairness.

Also don't assume everyone owne property and has made gains! Many of us had families too poor to buy. My grandmother never bought anywhere (and in fact died in Sunderland lunatic asylum). In fact one of her earler addresses looks like the address of a work house in the 1920s although I have no proof she was actually in one. There was some golden easier earlier time (and all women in my family in all generations have always worked by the way). In fact my mother supported my father through her wages in the 1940s and 50s.

Yeah many pensioners these days weren't even born at the end of the war though. None of my Dad or Inlaws were. You would have to be late 70s as a minimum to have any real memory of it.

Instead of blaming each other for the prroblems today we should heap it on the government particularly the Blair/ Brown administration. The rate that House price have risen over the past 15 years have made them unaffordable to the current generation but this was largely due to Gordon Brown raiding the pensions pot and making it unattractive to save for one that coupled with miserly interest rates for saving has resulted in people piling their money into the housing market instead increasing prices. Increasing the UK population by 300,000 each year was also bound to put pressure on housing thus increasing the problems of supply and demand.
No free university education for your children again you need to question why 40% of the population need a degree but we still have skills shortages tax payers can't fund those numbers that are now going so everyone ends up paying
The government has done nothing to help the younger generation but their problems are not caused by the older generation it is the result of government policies

I think it is right but until the labour government pensioners were the most disadvantaged group, this was appalling given how vulnerable they tend to be. I don't think pensioners are necessarily rich either. I think families have become poor in general. If it leads to resentment that would be unfair. Agree with others successive govts are to blame.