Pensioners now better of than working families - is this right?

[TeaCake5]

www.theguardian.com/money/2017/feb/13/pensioners-now-20-a-week-better-off-than-working-households

What do you think? I think that this is going to cause more resentment in the medium term.

Shouldn't we hope by the time we retire we have much more money than those still working??

I do think the 'grey vote' have been protected somewhat from swingeing cuts as they usually vote tory. I don't expect this to last. Older people are the biggest 'drain' (in Tory terms not mine) on the public purse. With brexit coming up, local authorities, the NHS and working age benefits cut to the bone the only place for their ideology to go is pensioners... I expect this is why we are seeing press attention given to the issue of 'wealthy' pensioners TBH... to try and create resentment and a howling mob just as re working age benefits, immigrants etc

Apringle - what I hope is that in one of the wealthiest countries in the world no-one should be living a life of insecurity, young, old etc. People with dependents generally need more money to house and feed and educate more people. Older people need to have security in housing and social care.

Haven't had time to rft yet but can't let driving me bonkerscomments go unremarked I can recall 18%mortgage rate when I bought my first home in 1980 but have never had more than a 3%salary increase in my long working life.
Yes I retired on a decent final salary pension scheme but had worked ft for 18years while raising a family .My DH was unemployed for 8years .We paid both DDs fees and expenses through university and every penny we have inherited has gone to them for house purchase. I agree that their generation will not 'have it easy'(hence the above)but in some respects neither did mind.To pit one generation against another doesnt help anyone

Impossible to make such a blanket statement. Some pensioners have final salary schemes or public sector pensions dating from years ago. Some but by no means all those pensions are at a high level. Other pensioners live (or try to) on the state pension and little or nothing else. Others may have the state pension and a small occupational pension. The term 'working families' can cover a situation in which both parents work in anything from low to very highly paid employment.

'Pensioners better off than working families' makes a good headline though...

Yep, Margaret Thatcher selling off Council houses cheap but failing to ensure there was an adequate replacement process for those houses now in private ownership led to house prices rising exponentially in areas of high demand (London for example).

While I'm not a massive fan of Blair or Brown, the policies of the previous Tory Government(s) instigated the housing crisis to start with.

Every government blames those who came before but the fundamentals are the same - rich get richer at the expense of everyone else

In reply to an earlier question my public service pension is about half what I used to earn-27 years of contributions .

I am a retired midwife. I stopped work due to a problem with my feet (dont laugh) As I am 62 I am not in receipt of my state pension. I mostly worked full time and didnt have a break for children (I know this is mumsnet but I am not childless by choice) I struggle from month to month. Where are all the wealthy pensioners? I dont know any. My friends who I trained with will be worse off than me as they had baby breaks and worked part time when the children where younger. So some of us are hardly wealthy.

Wow, Postchildrenpregranny, that's pretty good! I'll be lucky to get a quarter of mine. But I'm in the private sector. Not too happy about having to wait an extra 6 years to get anything from the state either.

What's really sad about this discussion is the resentment that someone might be better off than you are. Surely, we should all be working together to make it better for everyone?

My recently widowed mum is staying put in the only marital home she's ever known. My dad designed and built it. Over the years as the family grew they extended it. So she's in a 3 bed, 3 bath house around corner from me and her grandkids, in the village she's lives her entire life, in the house she and my father bought and paid for.

Not sure what you'd like her to do, Bonkers, donate it to the local council to house a family? wtaf

I w and my husband worked all our married life, no help from government. We earned a lot less, bought a lot less, didn't want it all. Lived to our means.

FA162 I use my bus pass because the bus fares to, and parking in ,our local town are extortionate
I like to think it is better for the environment
Lots of my pensioner friends feel the same.
If pensioners did not use our local buses many routes would find it hard to survive Which would not help the car-less

The bus pass should be means tested. Many routes are being withdrawn as they only carry pensioners hence take no fare money. Pensioners in london get an all zone travel card ffs.

Why should it be means tested? Where's the encouragement to do well in life if we only reward those that didn't self support.

Means testing just encourages people to do little hence the state of tax credits etc.

rainbows you sound like an escapee from a tory party social

The London Freedom Pass reduces the amount of driving by people who really ought not to be driving any more.

Oh, and TfL is credited by the London Boroughs for every use so a busload of Freedom Passers is just as valuable financially as a busload of Oysterers or debit-carders or ticket-buyers on the Tube; you can't pay cash on the bus now.

Pils are now 88. Retired approx age 55. FIL got a good pension even though he was just a wages clerk. Been on umpteen holidays never struggled as housing was cheap when they got married. Both tell us repeatedly we have it so good! despite us struggling to pay mortgage on a small terraced house and not being able to afford holidays

scrabble1 That tells us a lot about them but it does not make their favourable position unfair.

Seems a bit headliney simplistic - surely depends on the pensioner or working family? What about all the pensioners sat in dire care homes? Or in their houses unable to heat them? I think it can possibly go by area too.

Maybe better off because they're only paying living costs for themselves?

Many older people started work at 15 or 16. Now most go to University for three or four years and many then go on to do a Masters degree or further training so only start working at 22 or older. So the argument that today's pensioners retire at 65 whereas many in the future will work until they are 70 makes little sense as both groups if in continuous employment for all of their working lives will work for similar years. The difference being one group have free time at end of working life whereas other group have own time to go to Uni and then work after.

It has always been the case that when the kids are small and you need money and a holiday the most it is harder to afford and when your children leave home and your mortgage is paid off you can afford lots of holidays but maybe not in good health. It is just the way it is.

Post - and would you use it so much if it wasn't free ?

A pension of half of what you earn is a pipe dream for most private sector workers. To get a pension of £15k a year index linked at 65, you would need to have a pension pot of £450k plus. Not likely many will have that when the average pot is just over £30k.

All this I worked hard is nonsense. Everyone could say that. Obviously there are people who don't work hard and as I've said before, often they do the best of the lot because they take risks.

A care worker in the private sector doing shifts and wiping people's arses works hard for me and they will end up with tiny pensions. Sitting in an office all day like I do with the heating on, endless cups of tea and a chat every now and again ain't hard work when compared to others.

Its all relative.

People should just accept that they have a nice life and that some of it is just about right place, right time, being lucky enough to find education relatively straightforward, being lucky enough to have loving relationships and being lucky enough to have their health.

Young people have a nice life too, getting pissed up every weekend, shagging who they want without stigma and holidaying in Magaluf every year. I bet some of the older generation wouldn't have minded a bit of that in exchange for some of their pension!

Swings and roundabouts.

Sounds like you're upset by it - hope not. People pay into the pension with a certain expectation of earning a certain "wage" when they retire. Should they earn less, because the economy has tanked ? (Because of Brexit etc etc)

What do you think should happen, then ? Pensioners should get less pension, or should have it capped ?

This feels like we are being softened up for an onslaught on pension values.

From the BBC Reality Check page: "The calculation made by the Resolution Foundation is for household income after housing costs. Before housing costs are taken into account, working-age households still have higher incomes than pensioner households."

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38957903

I don't think bus passes should be means tested. Some people work hard all of their working lives, paying a lot of tax and NI, they have never claimed any benefit at all and when they retire they think they will finally get something back for all of the money they paid in. If they have savings all they can claim is pension and bus pass. My married aunt and uncle worked full time all their lives, never had kids, never claimed a penny of benefit in their lives but now claim pension and bus pass. Yes they are quite well off, pay tax on their pension and investments, mortgage paid and can afford holidays but they should be entitled to a free bus pass which my aunt uses as none of them drive. It would be so unfair if the little they can claim free, a bus pass is taken away from them because they were prudent and saved for their old age. Some people just want to pay little in but take everything out.