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AIBU?

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Original poster

To be ashamed of the Labour Party leadership

956 replies

20nil · 11/02/2017 21:43

Long term member, did not support Corbyn, but even I am surprised by quite how bad he's been.

Where is the opposition? I get that Brexit is difficult, but where is Labour on the collapse of the NHS, the explosion of homelessness, the decimation of local council funding and the ticking bomb that is school funding?

Why is it that we now look to the Lords, the Cof E and petitions to be the opposition?

Shocking state of affairs.

OP posts:
JustAnotherPoster00 · 12/02/2017 15:31

i.huffpost.com/gen/1049467/thumbs/o-THATCHER-MUGABE-570.jpg?6

and for balance although both right wing leaders

www.bollyn.com/public/blairgaddafi.jpg

Elendon · 12/02/2017 15:38

The last question time was held in Torquay and the MP for Torbay is Tory. Kevin Foster. Torquay is not a labour area. Exeter is. Perhaps you are getting confused?

AllThePrettySeahorses · 12/02/2017 15:38

I can not believe that people are trying to justify Corbyn's terrorist associations with 'whataboutism'.That is just pathetic. If it's bad, it's bad for him too. Worse, actually - because you pretend Corbyn has principles when he has none. Nor was Blair right-wing. Grow up. I'd be more justified in saying Corbyn is a Kipper plant to be honest.

I'd also like to point out that the list of policies linked to upthread are on JeremyforLabour's page. That's the current name for Momentum. Why are they on the website of a separate, unaffiliated group that panhandles for money under what seems to be the Labour name and for which McDonnell is mentioned as being in charge? Something smells very, very bad to me.

Anyway, back to the OP - YANBU, from a decades-long Labour member.

tobee · 12/02/2017 15:39

Yeah, we've long known all that.

tobee · 12/02/2017 15:40

Sorry that was addressed to Just and the links.

Elendon · 12/02/2017 15:40

Ann Widdecombe was the Tory representative. Owen Wilson Labour.

Elendon · 12/02/2017 15:43

I'd also like to point out that the list of policies linked to upthread are on JeremyforLabour's page. That's the current name for Momentum. Why are they on the website of a separate, unaffiliated group that panhandles for money under what seems to be the Labour name and for which McDonnell is mentioned as being in charge? Something smells very, very bad to me.

I agree with every word you write AllThePrettySeahorses especially this.

Elendon · 12/02/2017 15:46

But that headline Just is not what is said beneath.

makeourfuture · 12/02/2017 15:48

And already we have criticism of how someone looks and not their performance. Starmer is not a conviction politician, unlike Corbyn, but has worked in areas outside of the bubble of Westminster. Yet, all that matters are his looks? Shallow observations just mean you have a shallow opinion of politics.

I will vote on a Starmer-led Labour party over the Conservatives. Absolutely.

My question is why other people allow their strange feelings against Corbyn and people like Abbot to take on such heated strength - such strength that they allow the Tories to continue their harm.

The Tories are gutting the country...I will support Corbyn. If he steps down I will support the next person. I hope they have the same strong policy positions.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 12/02/2017 15:50

The Tories are gutting the country...I will support Corbyn. If he steps down I will support the next person. I hope they have the same strong policy positions.

Exactly this

AllThePrettySeahorses · 12/02/2017 15:52

What are Corbyn's policy positions? He has a tendency to flip-flop.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 12/02/2017 15:52

My question is why other people allow their strange feelings against Corbyn and people like Abbot to take on such heated strength

My feelings against Corbyn are valid.

You can say he is as principles as you like. Giving a peerage to someone who writes a report for him shows he doesn't.

AllThePrettySeahorses · 12/02/2017 15:54

Elendon - that Momentum thing really bothers me. Seems like solid proof there's a Labour takeover, (especially?) including its money. It would be so easy to donate to them by mistake.

Elendon · 12/02/2017 15:55

The Tories are gutting the country...I will support Corbyn. If he steps down I will support the next person. I hope they have the same strong policy positions.

So you will only support the next leader of the Party if they think exactly the same as Corbyn?

Corbyn is allowing the Tories to gut the country by his ineffectiveness and divisiveness. Or do you think he is effective in opposition? Is he really going to stop the Tories doing this?

Elendon · 12/02/2017 15:58

I agree AllThePrettySeahorses, it is a worry, but there are those in the party who need our support. I'm sure that Momentum will not take over the finances, because if that happens, quite frankly, we are fooked.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 12/02/2017 16:01

I don't think Momentum could take over the finances, under parliamentary rules.

Elendon · 12/02/2017 16:06

If the Tory party keep sneering and denigrating Piglet, then the outcome might well be what you are wishing for. A single party rule within a democracy.

Elendon · 12/02/2017 16:09

I think a democracy should be four years with each Party in rule, so long as the party has at least 100 members/affiliates. Voting should be for referendum purposes only. Two tabled each year.

Let the people decide. Do you want to keep the NHS?

Andrewofgg · 12/02/2017 16:28

Thank you Elendon, but the BNP has more than 100 members.

You are not serious, are you?

Original poster
20nil · 12/02/2017 16:48

Course Labour is a broad church; all political parties are. The Conservative Party is hugely divided, always have been. But they tend to buckle down and that's why they win elections. I'm no Blairite, how could I be after the Gulf War? But we have to appeal beyond our immediate circle, beyond the JC loyalist and tribal Labour people like me. We have to learn to win elections by reaching beyond our core. God knows, we'll have little help from the press, business etc ... We instinctive loyalists will never constitute a majority; we have to appeal more broadly if we want to save the NHS, state education, trade union rights etc ...

I fail to understand why JC supporters cannot see that he is not the man to do that.

But I want my Party to win

OP posts:
Original poster
20nil · 12/02/2017 16:50

Blush sorry, cat typing with me.

OP posts:
makeourfuture · 12/02/2017 16:52

I think a democracy should be four years with each Party in rule, so long as the party has at least 100 members/affiliates. Voting should be for referendum purposes only. Two tabled each year.

Now that's of interest! You would need a strong apolitical civil service.

Elendon · 12/02/2017 17:17

They don't have 100 Mps in the HOP Andrew!

Meant MPs not members. Otherwise we would have the Monster Raving Loony Party!

Elendon · 12/02/2017 17:21

Do we want the Labour party to govern or to win? I think there is a difference.

The Labour Party is the natural party to govern for most people in this country. That's what I believe. But under this current leadership, this isn't the case.