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AIBU?

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Original poster

To be ashamed of the Labour Party leadership

956 replies

20nil · 11/02/2017 21:43

Long term member, did not support Corbyn, but even I am surprised by quite how bad he's been.

Where is the opposition? I get that Brexit is difficult, but where is Labour on the collapse of the NHS, the explosion of homelessness, the decimation of local council funding and the ticking bomb that is school funding?

Why is it that we now look to the Lords, the Cof E and petitions to be the opposition?

Shocking state of affairs.

OP posts:
Rugbyplayersarehot · 15/02/2017 10:10

whirl yes

augustbody · 15/02/2017 10:12

I totally agree with that quote from that Guardian article above. The 'real fight starts now' tweet honestly makes Corbyn look like he purposely makes pathetic little effort in actual Parliament just so that he can get out there and wave placards at rallies or film himself moaning on trains because it gives his socialist 'people's party' credentials more legitimacy or something?

JustAnotherPoster00 · 15/02/2017 10:13

Lately the guardian comments section has just been soul-shrivellingly awful.

Neo-liberal paper that thinks it left wing but mainly the BTL comments are pissed off kippers, or thats how it seems.

Rugbyplayersarehot · 15/02/2017 10:13

Sorry posted too soon yes it needs to be discussed properly but I think we are past that point now with Brexit. It's too late. People's concerns have been ignored for too long and I hold a weak Labour Party responsible for that.

JC not sharing a platform with Cameron to state the remain case was totally and completely unforgivable and extremely pathetic

augustbody · 15/02/2017 10:16

Labour and the tories poo poo their feelings and concerns and that's how this mess of Brexit happened

Yes, this. Gordon Brown dismissing that woman as 'bigoted' in full earshot of the public pissed a lot of people right off!

flippinada · 15/02/2017 10:26

What tea said. It's really refreshing to have a thread like this which feels like a respectful discussion, with posters talking and actually listening to each other. I think there is common ground here.

Like many I come from a Labour background - my folks are lifelong members and I recall being dragged out leafleting with my Mum on many occasions, attending campaign meetings and so on. It's given me a real appreciation for the sheer hard slog that goes into political campaigning, and just now much compromise is needed. Not to mention respect for the people who do it.

My own beliefs are on the left. But also I'm pragmatic enough to recognise that a more moderate approach is needed.

PS Rugby you're not missing anything wrt quinoa. Horrible stuff!

flippinada · 15/02/2017 10:29

I should say, a more moderate approach is needed to attract voters.

Agree with PP that immigration is the elephant in the room. Not discussing it and dismissing people's concerns has led to the rise of right wing populism.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 15/02/2017 10:32

Agree with PP that immigration is the elephant in the room. Not discussing it and dismissing people's concerns has led to the rise of right wing populism.

I agree.

It's like the strange idea that everyone that voted remain doesn't have concerns about immigration which just isn't true.

WhirlwindHugs · 15/02/2017 10:34

You do have to listen and consider people's concerns about immigration.

I feel a lot of those concerns really should have been headed off by local MPs and planning dpts a long time ago. Others are really worries about job security and a good leader should be tackling those on a national basis.

Some of those worries are just fear of the unknown. Which also needs addressing.

Rolling over and saying 'oh we agree with you, immigration is a 100% bad thing' is a terrible idea because it feeds the idea that new Labour was incompetent and awful and everything that happened then was bad and if you vote Labour it'll be more of the same.

You have to defend your policies. Morally it's also wrong to allow immigrants to be scapegoated when we know, genuine facts, that most of the claims laid at their door are not true. Lying about immigrants to gain votes is no better than Trump.

Rugbyplayersarehot · 15/02/2017 10:34

August I think that was a defining moment for labour loosing massively to UKIP and emerged from a stance of refusing to listen to people's genuine concerns. As others said it's the elephant that needs addressing.

Flip similar background Smile I have tried olives so that's pretty posh for my family. Grin

Rugbyplayersarehot · 15/02/2017 10:39

whirl agree lying about immigration is clearly wrong, just as wrong as dismissing concerns. People are quite capable of accepting the truth that immigration is a great thing for the country but uncontrolled mass immigration causes issues. However you spin it facts are facts

flippinada · 15/02/2017 10:42

I like olives (black ones, not green) but they are definitely an acquired taste!

Whirlwind agree - great post.

WhirlwindHugs · 15/02/2017 10:46

Spin is not just spin though. It's controlling the tone of the conversation away from Labour were shit towards this is how things get better.

'uncontrolled mass immigration' is def not helpful if you want to defend your record! It's the Labour was rubbish record and it has to be changed.

You could talk about directed immigration. Attracting more immigrants in areas where needed to stimulate the local economy. You could talk about genuine reinvestment, different kinds of job creation and planning for the future in areas with high levels of need/immigration and low employment rates/oversubscribed schools etc.

makeourfuture · 15/02/2017 10:47

By elephant in the room, I am pro open borders, I meant that we need to discus why people in our party hold the illogical anti-immigrant view.

Rugbyplayersarehot · 15/02/2017 10:53

Whirl you put it so much better and yes I totally agree please stand for election.

Rugbyplayersarehot · 15/02/2017 10:55

flip my dm tried lasagna at the garden centre last week. We are getting there. Grin

WhirlwindHugs · 15/02/2017 11:03

Thanks Rugby Blush

flippinada · 15/02/2017 11:05

Rugby did she like it though?

Off topic I know (apologies) but I remember talking to my mum about what kind of stuff she used to eat as a child. Lasagne and "foreign" food thing was unheard of - traditional/plain stuff was the norm, no fridges or freezers and shop bought biscuits and cakes were a huge treat.

CornetBlues · 15/02/2017 11:07

Open borders - when did this notion take hold?

I can't for the life of me see how open borders between unequal societies can be compatible with a welfare state. Or even a functioning state of any kind tbh. I'd love to move to USA as I have relatives there. But US immigration won't let me and I accept this as a normal state of affairs. What am I missing?

makeourfuture · 15/02/2017 11:08

Whirl you put it so much better and yes I totally agree please stand for election.

This guy does pretty well too:

“We will instead tackle the real issues of immigration and make the real changes that are needed. We will act to end the exploitation of migrant labour to undercut workers’ pay and conditions."

  • Jeremy Corbyn
flippinada · 15/02/2017 11:08

For reference this was in the 50s and 60s.

Whirl you should stand for election!

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 15/02/2017 11:11

Vote for whirl

We could have placards and everything Grin

makeourfuture · 15/02/2017 11:14

Open borders - when did this notion take hold? I can't for the life of me see how open borders between unequal societies can be compatible with a welfare state.

Well for instance, Britain, working within a strong Europe, can support policies equalising Member State conditions. Sadly this will not now be possible.

Corbyn has worked closely for quite a while within The Party of European Socialists (which Labour is a member of) to just this goal.

Original poster
20nil · 15/02/2017 11:19

Brought up in a very anti-Labour household so I know the drill. What this thread reveals is that even those of us who agree that JC is part of the problem, disagree on how Labour should try to attract voters.

I think Labour needs to make a positive case for immigration, but within reason, and also to promise to protect wages within a more general critique of austerity. It just hasn't made a good anti-austerity case at all. Of course the Tories are to blame for spinning the ridiculous Labour wrecked the economy and now we need austerity line, but Labour didn't challenge it hard enough. It became an accepted truth, even though 1. it wasn't true, and 2. the Tories backed every single tough economic choice made by Labour.

And sorry to those of you who have gone over to the Lib Dems, but they colluded in this too. Going into government with the Tories is completely understandable, so too is having to back down on tuition fees (though wrong obviously). But the sight of Clegg and Danny Alexander enthusiastically pushing the idea that Labour was entirely to blame for the crash will never leave me. It was dishonest, opportunistic and helped the Tories to perpetuate the kind of dangerous myths that led to more and more austerity. It also highlighted quite how right wing and basically libertarian many Lib Dems are.

OP posts:
CornetBlues · 15/02/2017 11:20

Thanks for responding makeourfuture.

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