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Original poster

To be ashamed of the Labour Party leadership

956 replies

20nil · 11/02/2017 21:43

Long term member, did not support Corbyn, but even I am surprised by quite how bad he's been.

Where is the opposition? I get that Brexit is difficult, but where is Labour on the collapse of the NHS, the explosion of homelessness, the decimation of local council funding and the ticking bomb that is school funding?

Why is it that we now look to the Lords, the Cof E and petitions to be the opposition?

Shocking state of affairs.

OP posts:
EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 14/02/2017 10:36

And how is a government going to finance such a change in direction they could only possibly do this by us all paying much more

Do you really believe that a 5p increase in the basic rate of income tax and higher rates for higher earners are really going to win voters plus vat increase, increased stamp duty, business incentives lowered

1p increase will change so little in the economy it would have to be a significant amount

And do you really believe Corbyn can win an election given Labours performance in local elections since he has become leader

Rugbyplayersarehot · 14/02/2017 10:41

I think it's easier to be carping from the opposition benches and opposing which is what JC has done his whole career.

Winning and leading isn't his thing is it.

makeourfuture · 14/02/2017 10:49

Do you really believe that a 5p increase in the basic rate of income tax and higher rates for higher earners are really going to win voters plus vat increase, increased stamp duty, business incentives lowered

To be completely honest....it is going to be very painful. I don't have a complete vision of how drastic things will become for us. We are getting just a peek with these current cuts.

The question here, the real question, is are we going to share the pain? Business, the rich, the middle class...everyone. Or are we going to shovel the suffering down the ladder, waking in the night sweating - saying, "When will it reach me?"

Action now will hurt....yes it will mean higher taxes....but the alternative...

Lalsy · 14/02/2017 10:52

Make - do you think JC can win an election? If not, why are you supporting him, given he needs to win to put the policies you believe in into action? I do see what you are saying, but it seems irrelevant to me, because as long as JC leads Labour, TM only has to appease her right wing to stay in power and wreak destruction. And the clock is ticking.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 14/02/2017 11:06

According to a poll released this week by the independent Labour is now the third most popular party amongst the working class.

But her JC is doing a great job hey.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 14/02/2017 11:06

*hey

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 14/02/2017 11:17

Third party

Oh that's really bad but apparently we are responsible Piglet along with other life long labour supporters who refuse to support the disastrous road Corbyn is taking the party on

No party will ever win with such tax increases and many many people simply couldn't afford such a rise in tax becuase all tax increases have a knock on effect price rises in good as companies claw back the money they have to pay out in other ways. Of course a rise shouldn't be only on the basic rate but that is where the main income would come from with an income tax increase

flippinada · 14/02/2017 11:23

*"I think it's easier to be carping from the opposition benches and opposing which is what JC has done his whole career".

Agree Rugby. He's a very well paid professional agitator who has led a rather privileged lifestyle. It feels like he's playing a game almost, not understanding the real life consequences for the low paid and vulnerable - whatever noises he makes to the contrary.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 14/02/2017 11:27

I agree he is an agitator who has lived a very privileged life that he likes to play down

He will take the party to where he thinks it should be not where it is electable the cuts don't inpact him directly but the suffering will be worth it for what excatly to make a point

flippinada · 14/02/2017 11:35

Yes, that's exactly it Enthusiasm. It's like he'd rather the Labour Party was "ideologically pure" rather than electable.

I'd rather have an imperfect Labour Party that stands a chance of being elected and effecting positive change.

flippinada · 14/02/2017 11:36

Too many rathers there, but hopefully you all get the gist!

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 14/02/2017 11:47

Yes I do and totally agree

makeourfuture · 14/02/2017 12:29

I don't know if you guys are acknowledging fully the nature of our predicament. There is certainly a line of thought that Blair was just an opportunist. I don't really care, except for the war dead.

But again, the problem, and it is a problem of epic proportions not seen since 1929, is that his/Brown's economic policy was basically Tory. And it has been shown to not work. There really is no more money. The idea that we can continue chasing a fairytale of happy credit-fueled homeowner families while tossing the poor and sick a few pounds...that accounts will never come due.....is deluded.

I don't believe in revolution....you end up with lots of dead people in ditches...so we have to work smart, and we have to share the burden.

Lalsy · 14/02/2017 12:33

Make, can JC win an election? Sorry to keep asking, but if you don't think he can......

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 14/02/2017 12:38

I don't know if you guys are acknowledging fully the nature of our predicament

The predicament is that the party that is supposed to be for the working class is currently polling third in popularity amongst the working class.

I don't think it is people that don't like JC that don't fully understand the predicament.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 14/02/2017 12:41

Yes well aware of the situation

No one is saying that there shouldn't be tax rises and that the most vulnerable shouldn't be protected from this

But voters simply won't vote for such tax rises

KeyserSophie · 14/02/2017 12:47

Blair wanted to be PM and was able to persuade a party that had been in the wilderness for the best part of 2 decades to support policies to appeal to a broad enough cross section of society to achieve it, and he was assisted by hugely fortuitous global economic tailwinds for much of his time in power. I'm not a massive fan of the guy, but he's the only person who's managed to make Labour electable. The post-Blair shift to the left via Brown and Miliband and now Corbyn, has been totally electorally unsuccessful, so I don't understand why Labour persists in that direction if the goal is to get seats.

I did think that maybe the RW of Labour and the LW of the Tories might split off post-Brexit and form a sort of Blairite party that would probably get a majority, but there's nothing to be gained for the potential Tory defectors now- they're pretty much guaranteed 2020 which leaves RW of the Labour party stranded.

What about that ex-Director of PP guy? Keir? He'd be quite good as leader I think.

KeyserSophie · 14/02/2017 12:49

But also the press is doing JC over, just as they did for Hague and IDS when they were backing Blair.

Original poster
20nil · 14/02/2017 13:22

No Make, the 'real question' is how are we going to get Labour into power ASAP so that it can begin to clean up this mess? Once in, we can think about how much socialism is going to be both palatable and possible. Now's the not the time to debate this. Now is the time to win.

Like you, I would prefer a more left wing Party, but right now, I want Labour in more than anything. JC can't do that and while he can't, millions of people continue to suffer. You don't like Blair, I didn't either and I regret that he didn't make more radical changes when he could. But he did bring more pensioners out of poverty than ever before, he did introduce a minimum wage, sure start and adequate funding for schools and the NHS. We are desperate for more of that now. We need a Labour government. JC can't deliver one.

OP posts:
flippinada · 14/02/2017 13:52

I agree that the right wing press have it in for JC but then they always give Labour leaders a rough ride. Anyone remember that Sun headline from the 1992 election? I can't remember the exact wording but something like "If Neil Kinnock wins tomorrow will the last person to leave Britain please tur out the lights?"

But it's not just the press. As pp have suggested some of JC's supporters seem to feel that just by turning up and having a few policies which sound good but are short on substance that's enough.

Rugbyplayersarehot · 14/02/2017 13:54

If you arnt in power you can't do anything. If your Policies arnt attracting the majority you can't win. You don't win you don't change things. It's not rocket science.

I predict huge loss for labour in stoke sorry.

Rugbyplayersarehot · 14/02/2017 13:56

i don't think you guys are fully acknowledging the nature of our predicament

No we are it's you whose blinkered.

flippinada · 14/02/2017 14:13

That was a bit abrupt. I'm going to blame flipcat junior who chose that moment to dive bomb me.

In the spirit of being constructive, I think the LPL needs certain qualities - ability, authority, flexibility, integrity and voter appeal. I know several OP have mentioned Keir Starmer as a possibility.

Anon1234567890 · 14/02/2017 14:36

What has happened to the half a million JC activists that flooded the party? Why aren't they stepping up and raising his profile, promoting him and broadening the base. Have they jumped ship already? did they even exist or were they planted by Putin.

juliascurr · 14/02/2017 14:46

you know there was a leadership election? The losing side(s) are still Labour members. The personally ambitious ones became MPs and organised eg a vote of no confidence. That kind of action has systematically undermined Corbyn from day 1
no wonder he looks like a weak leader; he's trying to herd cats
The PLP should show some solidarity

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