To be ashamed of the Labour Party leadership

[20nil]

Long term member, did not support Corbyn, but even I am surprised by quite how bad he's been.

Where is the opposition? I get that Brexit is difficult, but where is Labour on the collapse of the NHS, the explosion of homelessness, the decimation of local council funding and the ticking bomb that is school funding?

Why is it that we now look to the Lords, the Cof E and petitions to be the opposition?

Shocking state of affairs.

I'm not arguing anything, just pointing out that popularity amongst the LP membership does not translate to electoral success. I think it's great that JC inspired people to join but it doesn't seem to have gone anywhere.

It would be interesting to see how many new members are active in the party (campaigning and so on). Joining and not doing anything apart from voting doesn't really mean much. That's not a criticism by the way, not everyone has the time or energy to devote to polical activism. More power to those who do IMO.

Serious question. Regarding efforts to attract new voters, do you think this disunity attracts them?

What 20nil said and I find it incredible that many of these new members are Labour Party supporters at all. They can't possibly be or they would want labour in power and not heading again fucking again into the wilderness.

I think he has reached a plato with members.

Yes people have joined because of him. Many have also left because if him.

Of course a party that isn't united publicly isn't good

But I haven't heard anyone say they are not voting for Labour as they are not united, I have heard many many people say that they think Corbyn isn't up to the job so will not vote Labour

And a party leader needs to have broad appeal and put forward policies that are popular with voters

I have heard many many people say that they think Corbyn isn't up to the job so will not vote Labour

This is the issue and could very well be why they lose Copeland.

What Enthusiasm said - and if you read the thread you will see that the reasons people are not supporting him are fundamental and serious. We all have principles.

So, in the absence of any answers to those questions, what do those who would like to see a change think of Clive Lewis (not necessarily as leader but as a major player)? I guess he could take many of the new supporters with him and I was impressed with him over Trident - but don't know much more than that. Has he got baggage? Could he work with people not from his wing of the party?

I don't trust Corbyn. He says he's a Remainer but he's clearly a rampant Brexiteer.

I like his policies but they're all going to go to shit after we hard brexit.

He is currently on minus 40 in favourability ratings

A big part of which is down to the constant in-fighting and backstabbing within the party and the flat-out refusal to support our own leader. So-called Labour supporters predicted his failure and then set about trying to prove themselves right at any cost.

I think it's great that JC inspired people to join but it doesn't seem to have gone anywhere.

I have friends who joined from the Lib-Dems and the Greens. I'm confident they weren't the only ones. How did the party treat these new members? It did everything it could to expel them; it trawled their social media accounts for evidence of wrongdoing, including past affiliation with other parties; it disenfranchised them. This party has done everything in its power to alienate the electorate, especially those attracted to us from other parties. Oh there's some who make noises about attracting voters, but it's nothing more than noise. The accusation that JC wants to remain in opposition is absolute projection!

oh right so it's forums like this and comments on media sites that hold such influence

Nothing to do with Corbyn himself

Any evidence for that, Slarti? And do you think he can win a GE?

A big part of which is down to the constant in-fighting and backstabbing within the party and the flat-out refusal to support our own leader

Prehaps we are following the lead of dear leader because of course he has always supported his party leader hasn't he.

How do his supporters rate his parliamentary and media performances, his handling of Brexit, his management of his own supporters (Lewis and DA, for eg)?

It's too easy to say that infighting is to blame for his bad performance. But MP after MP has tried to work with him and few have managed. I agree that some wanted him to fail from the beginning and I have no time for the likes of Hunt who deserted Labour at a terrible time. But I'm one of many, many members who was prepared to give him a chance even though I didn't vote for him. But he's been shocking and that's down to him. A real leader has to rise above the opposition from within and without.

Oh the irony

I believe right wing Tory policies will destroy society. I believe that the third way is nothing but the same policies shrouded in social camouflage. His policies are sound. I will support him or anyone else proposing the same.

How do his supporters rate his parliamentary and media performances, his handling of Brexit, his management of his own supporters (Lewis and DA, for eg)?

Everybody else's fault but his, apparently

Fair enough, Make. So do you think he is a good leader, has performed well on Brexit, and can win a GE - or do those things not matter to you? Serious question. And what do you think of Clive Lewis?

I believe tory policies will destroy society too. I believe that Corbyn remaining as leader will lead to years of Tory government.
It's the fault of the press.
It's the fault of the Blairites
It's the fault of the members.
We have heard it all before, we thought we had moved beyond this years ago.
The raving about the biggest political party in Europe is just laughable. They flocked to his rally in Sheffield, weeks later in the same city, they were nowhere to be seen at the ballot box.
The council by election in Sheffield coincided with the second Labour leadership contest, Momentum spent the time drumming up support for Corbyn, Lib dems on the other hand were knocking on doors, they won the by election obviously.

Yes, OP, He is not holding this government to account

He allows the Tories to go ahead with a hard Brexit, and their planned abolition of human rights

It is shocking

He is shockingly bad

Clive Lewis is good. As long as he makes clear in a leadership election that he supports the historic socialist aims of the LA our Party.

Look if this was 1997, I would be singing Things Can Only Get Better and feeling good. The world has darkened. The Earth's climate is changing quickly, intolerance is the norm now. What has happened to people with disabilities in the last few years is inhumane and I think we are so overwhelmed by everything, the bodies in the Mediterranean, a wildman in the White House, that we are shutting down love and hope and compassion. We have given the people who destroyed the economy a blank check to continue doing the things that led to the crash.

We do not have the time for middle of the road. We need to fundamentally change the way we do things.

But the majority of the public want more middle of the road politics that's why Blair's labour was so popular

We are not a socialist country never have been we are a country where we have an economy that is tied in with shared ownership, home ownership and gaining money from that to keep the econy moving forward while paying relatively low taxes. To change that and move to a country that is based on socialism would mean taking back ownership of certain industries all sounds good but it would cost huge amounts of money and taxes would have to rise greatly to pay for all that and that isn't a vote winner

It's idealistic politics that if you start with a blank sheet maybe it can work

Right now what Labour and the country need is a leader that can lead an opposition that will challenge the government and put up alternative proposals to their Brexit plans no one can say is is doing any of that becuase he simply isn't. There is always in party disagreements no one has rebelled more than Corbyn himself a leader has to manage that again something he just isn't bothering to do

Make, yes, to all that. The world is in a more frightening state than I can remember. But do you think JC can win an election and is he doing a good job on Brexit? Have any of JC's supporters on this thread said they think he can win an election, and if so, how?

Without winning an election, no serious change can be effected and the poor and vulnerable are thrown to the wolves. I don't think JC is a man of principle (see previous comments ) but even if I did, I would prefer someone who can deliver a Labour government soon and make a start on cleaning up the mess before it gets any worse. Then we can talk. Politics is changing and the old divisions are shifting.

Enthusiasm, I agree.

Please consider this, if we experience another financial shock like in 2007, if for instance, as many are saying is possible, the Chinese economy stumbles, or Trump starts a trade war, home values will be the very least of our worries. The days of credit fueled growth are gone.

The scenario stated up thread, this chimaera of endlessly increasing home values underwriting easy lifestyles, with pittance offered to the sick and poor is a fairytale.

I choose not to beleve in fairytales.

Reminds me of parents of kids who are disruptive and not achieving at school!

They tired/picked on/misunderstood/bored/too clever/blah blah blah.

He's a crap leader whose taking the party down. Most new members are agitating twats who won't be there canvassing on the door step and don't give a shit of labour go back to the wilderness years. Strongly suaiect most are tories causing trouble.