To ask you to help me argue with an anti-vaxxer on fb

[GoesDownLikeACupOfColdSick]

I know, I know. But it's Saturday night, DP is out and I am just home whilst our (fully vaccinated!) DD is asleep.

What do I say to someone who is convinced that we should all do our own research, that vaccines are only about big pharma making big bucks, and that the govt hushes up vaccine damage??

No one does their own research on astronomy or atoms

Why not? Are you not curious about the stars and life?

Do you have any area of your life where you allow yourself to advance your knowledge and have an opinion?

Atenco - what do you think "research" means?

My daughter is expected to do "research" as part of her weekly homework. I shall ask the school to contact you, OP, for the correct definition, as she's obviously not a trained medical expert and therefore incapable of doing "research". Maybe they could rename it "studying, investigating and factfinding"....oh wait....that would be....research?!

Go on, ColdSick, gives us a laugh. What does research mean?

Mimi that made me smile.

And even funnier, they expect her to do it ONLINE! OP, you need to tell them there are NO FACTS ONLINE! It's all made up.

Oh my goodness, just spotted this thread. It started as a sensible debate, descended into a slanging match and seems to have a picked up a bit, though it could go either way.

My SIL is an anti-vaxer she's convinced they're full of strange crap that controls the population numbers and minds, she's heading full tin foil hat brigade.

I have a MSc but it mustn't be like Devils, that must have been some course to teach you everything about science!

As with every situation you come across in life whether it be work, home, child related, you need to take advice from the experts. By all means do your own research , read the crazy tin foil hat websites, read the NHS and WHO literature on vaccines, talk to friend and relatives so you can make your own informed decision.

I work in an industry where there are huge amount of specialist trades, other people are experts in these, so when in work and a situation relating to one of these specialist areas arises, I contact the experts and we work through it together, I don't assume I know better from a quick google and launch in. I think that's all we can do in the vaccine department.

Since when did OP say there were no facts online? Obviously it's a very legitimate exercise to get children to do internet research for homework, precisely so that they can learn to filter out what is reliable from what is unreliable. The problem is that there are an awful lot of people who don't have those skills, and it becomes ever more difficult to research properly the more complex the subject you are researching. And there are an awful lot of batshit anti-vax conspiracy websites out there.

Nobody is advocating a quick google, but the OP is obsessed with the idea that it is all anyone who says they have done "research" has actually done.

Mimi, you haven't even understood the posts on here if you think that is what I was saying "all anyone who says they have done research has actually done". And yet you think you are capable of doing actual research? lolololol you're the gift that keeps on giving!

Atenco, I asked you the question. Don't you have an answer? You're the one who seems to think that everyone "researches" lots of things if they have any sort of a life, so let's hear it...

I don't assume I know better from a quick google and launch in.

Has anyone on this thread actually said that a "quick google" is sufficient to understand the complexities of vaccination? For that matter, has anyone actually here said that they believe no vaccine should be given to anyone?

From what I've seen, most people advocating doing their own research (defined as fact-finding) have spent a great deal of time and effort researching all aspects thoroughly, from a range of relevant sources, and almost certainly know more than the average nurse or GP. It seems ridiculous (and pretty insulting) to suggest that a person is only capable of learning if they have a degree specialising in that subject - didn't the specialists start off in the same place and have to do all the same research that posters have done?

Perhaps some people do lack the ability to grasp all the relevant concepts, but to suggest that everyone who isn't a specialist lacks this ability, even when they've clearly spent a huge amount of time learning it, is bizarre. The assumption seems to be that if you reach a different conclusion to the official recommendation (even though that is designed for an average person with lots of factors, including cost and convenience, in mind) you obviously must lack the ability to do research. What of all the scientists and medics who vaccinate selectively or on an alternative schedule?

I have a MSc but it mustn't be like Devils, that must have been some course to teach you everything about science!

Eh?

Did you read Devilish's posts? Where has she claimed that her information came from a Master's, rather than from enforced years (and years, and years) of trying to find out what the fuck had happened to her son, how to help him now, and how to avoid the same for her younger children?

I hope I've misread your post in turn, because otherwise that's one hell of an insensitive jibe.

Then why ridicule me when I state my sources OP? WTF is wrong with my sources?

"Online Queen" you called me didn't you??

Mimi, I don't know you. This is all anonymous internet, remember. Nothing you've posted on here has convinced me that you do any more than google and think you're clever, and if that's wrong, well, that's how your posts read, no more, no less. You just go on about "informed consent" but you don't seem to get what is truly "informed". However, that might be a billion light years from the truth in your particular circumstances. You might actually be a brilliant researcher who is able to sift through all the data out there and find the minutiae that matters and form a coherent and accurate conclusion as a consequence.

But THIS is the point: even if you were, that would not mean that everyone could do that. Most people would not be able to do that accurately. They would think that they were, because who is testing them? Or they would find the dark stuff that is out there and worry themselves sick. So parading around the idea that anyone can do online research is really not a clever thing to do. Even if you are queen of the internet!

She has spoke to specialist who don't know what to do, and she has used the internet to search for more information, how is that "only googling".

Anyone can do online research. That's how children todo their homework. Do you not allow your children to research on the internet, in order to do their homework?

Anyone can do online research. That's how children todo their homework

You seriously typed this on a conversation about advising someone on how to look into vaccination? Seriously??

Wow.

By your logic, OP, there is no such thing as "informed consent", therefore, nobody should be given a vaccine (or allowed to vote).

That's ok Atenco, I can read all I need to from your inability to answer a very straightforward question.

OP, nobody can take a word of what you post seriously because you manage to make it sound so rude.

I don't think many people are actually anti-vaccinations, I think they are cautious about vaccination their own children. They are, of course, random people who think all vaccines are evil and should never be given to children. On here, I've mainly seen parents who've had hideously traumatising experiences exercising caution where vaccines are concerned. FWIW, my children are fully vaccinated so I don't feel particularly biased. I think it's shockingly crass to make sarcastic and unpleasant comments towards parents who may very well have been damaged by vaccines. I assume you wouldn't do the same to a parent whose child was injured in a car crash when they were driving, or maybe you would.

Weeeeeell, you seem to have taken it all quite seriously mimi, you've been coming back to the thread and posting for days now!!

Yes OP and so have you, and you are far from taking it seriously.

I don't take you seriously, no. It's not possible based on what you've put on here.

The topic and some posters I most definitely do, and again you simply haven't read it properly if you've missed that. Lots of people talked a lot of sense on this thread.