Does it really do any harm??

[fruitandbarley]

Holidays in school time. I'm 40, my parents took me out of school for a week once a year to go on holiday.
I've done ok for myself, don't believe it's affected me in any way.
So AIBU to ask if it's really such a big deal. ( So long as it's not a silly amount of time).
Disclaimer:- I've had wine, any spelling mistakes are due to that and not a week camping in Cornwall when I was 8).

I can understand up to a point why head teachers are reluctant to sign off on holidays during term time. Whilst Using was a child in the 80's lots of kids with family abroad would visit for a extended periods of time. Mainly because the tickets to their countries of origin were so expensive and they would only visit once every few years because of the prohibitive cost. Attitudes have changed massively amongst immigrant families nowadays as they mainly recognise the benefits of completing a full school year. It was also fairly common during the 70's/80's for teenagers to be taken out of school early and married off in their parents countries of origin. It doesn't happen as much nowadays but I knew of a few people that this happened to so I think the approach towards holidays now is particularly helpful in reducing these types of incidents. The attitudes of certain communities towards education / early marriage / extended holidays has improved somewhat in the past 30 years or so. The families know that the authorities are a lot more involved and informed then they were in the past and that's a good thing in keeping vulnerable children safe. It's a bit of an inconvenience for the rest of us who want a bargain holiday but it's not the end of the world.

NarkyMcDinkyChops: The more you post, the less I am inclined to think about what you are saying. You just seem to be ranting, really. Obviously that isn't what happens.

I don't think 2 sentences can possibly constitute a rant. But perhaps I missed the day that definition was mentioned, who knows?

NarkyMcDinkyChops: The act of ranting can clearly take place over a series of equally unreasonable contributions to a discussion.

I don't agree. And I think they are perfectly reasonable contributions, in fact I would also call them useful and interesting, but then I suppose I would.

Yes, I suppose you would.

Is that a confused face or constipated?

I'm not sure. Could be both.

Not everyone has the luxury of being able to take their child away during summer holidays.

For 2 years I have not been able to get 2 weeks annual leave together during holidays, ridiculous!

I suppose if your children are lucky enough to not get ill all year then it won't make much difference. What if they are off for a week like mine just was with a high temp etc? If I had her on holiday too then that's 2 weeks missed.

No wonder UK schools are failing so badly if you teach multiplication on a Wednesday in May and never mention it again, thereby ensuring that anyone having a sneaky week in Tuscany will never be able to find the product of two numbers!

That's just being deliberately obtuse. Multiplication is taught, then used all the time. That is not necessarily the case with topics/modules in secondary school subjects. Obviously.

Kids who have a week out of school, or two?
Disruptive children who tie up your time?
Dyslexic pupils or other SEN pupils totally disengaged from school and not catered for?
Seriously problematic children who possibly should not be in main stream schools due to the amount of disruption they bring?
Bullying and the way it destroys self esteam and how some schools fail to tackle it effectively?

My apologies if your school has none of these issues but I am pretty sure all are represented in my son's primary school and possibly my dd's secondary school too.

You see for me, as a parent of a child with dyslexia, who (as far as I can remember) never took either child out of school for a holiday) there are far bigger issues with education than this issue

Great post Italian Greyhound My DD fellow pupils are massively disruptive and the teachers are not getting to grips with it - its something we all have to live with sadly.

I also hate this snobbery about sitting round on sun loungers.
If I go on holiday to the sun I may lie on a sun lounger for an hour, its not really my kind of holiday.
But I think relaxing is vitally important for all of us actually, and if thats how people want to relax on their holiday its no less invigorating and wonderful than taking your dc round the ancient monuments in Greece and Rome.

Sorry I know too many people who have passed away without warning and lost to many people to cancer to think we have the time to mess around with arguing whether to take a child out for a week once a year for a holiday for poor families.

That's just being deliberately obtuse

Actually it was being kinda drunk But I think I probably had a point in there somewhere!

Once had a huge battle to take DD 2 out of school for the last day of the Easter term. I refused to lie and say she was ill (as was suggested by class teacher )They backed down when I reminded them all the children had gone home at lunchtime on the last day of the Christmas term so staff could have a party for the departing head .
DD, whose attendance was exemplary, went on to get straight As for her GCSEs that summer The furore upset her(briefly) though .I was soooo angry .
It annoys me that parents can't be allowed to use their own judgement .I was taking both daughters away for a much needed break as we'd had a very difficult few weeks.It was the only flight I could get from our local airport to our destination.
I wouldn't do it for a fortnight just to save money though as the kids would have hated it .

DH took 6 weeks off every 3 years with his family, and at 11 went on a 3 month round the world trip.
He exited secondary with a record 'university points' achievement that made local news headlines ..and now he's a highly paid professional. Certainly hasn't done him any harm!

I'm a teacher and I fully support a parent's right to take their child on holiday during term time, as long as I'm then not blamed if the child is behind. I will cheerfully send home everything they have missed, and a motivated parent can catch them up by working through the missed work.

I would argue that I cannot offer that rich a cultural exposure in the classroom and god forbid I don't want to have to go on residential trips myself, so why not support parents to do it? Obviously a trip to somewhere with a cultural spin would be preferable to all you can eat ice creams on the beach, and I would expect something educational to take place, perhaps a daily diary of what you've been up to, food, language, handling money, visiting museums etc.

For the record a father won a case last year arguing that the law says you will send your child to school regularly, which evidently he did, and there is a code in the registers for being educated off site, which I'm sure you could evidence that this as if done properly.

Personally, I feel as long as your children have good rates of attendance and are doing well in school, a weeks holiday shouldn't be an issue, but a reward for effort over the year.

that's up to them, isn't it. But they certainly don't if they are absent Well it depends, if they are doing A level Latin I can't help them, if they are doing that one and only long multiplication lesson I reckon I can do it just as well at home. I frequently do in fact when GS comes home not having understood the lesson at school. I suppose you could argue it works better at home if he understands it with me and not with teacher.

My dD is in year 2 now, and I don't personally understand how it can even be legal to prevent/ penalise parents for taking their children out of school ( you are obliged by law to educate your child, not to send it to school). Having said that though I think it must be a complete pain for teachers, especially with large classes. I have taken DD out for an afternoon twice, to go to the theatre, for a couple of hours for a ballet exam, and for a few days when her granddad died. And the school authorised all of those without any problem. But actually I wouldn't take her out for a holiday, even though I do complain about the pointlessness of the last week of term.

I presume therefore you'd be alright with teachers and/or school staff taking leave during the school year?

Oh, that's different, then ?

We've taken them out at the end of term pretty much every year. We work in public services and the jobs we do make getting time off pretty challenging at the same time. On every occasion we've asked for any work yo keep the kids on target, and every year, nada. Luckily our internet access provides us with access to extension material for their years which you'd think the teachers have anyway so we've noticed no deterioration in their achievements.

I have more issue with the kids taking legitimate time off for every sniffle, not only are they missing random chunks of schooling (doubtful they'd start a new mega critical topic the week before summer hols) but what a poor work ethic to set!

When my daughter was in year 5 one of the teachers had a couple of days off for her silver wedding anniversary. I think her husband had booked a trip to London and a show. Didn't seem to be the end of the world.

My daughter's happiest six weeks in primary school was when he useless, nasty teacher had six weeks off for an operation and they had an amazing supply teacher. DD was devastated when the evil one returned.

So on balance I don't think it is a problem is staff take a holiday, of course it would have to be without pay as they already have their holidays and school would have to pay someone else.

I do think that that "cheaper week" needs to be looked at in the round though. I get 25 days holiday as does my DH. If we take a week off in school time, we need to find and find childcare for another week for all kids in the holidays. Plus the kids get a week less of their parents during the period that they look forward to as holiday time. I also think that there is a message that is sent to kids that school can be skipped for a holiday. I'm personally not entirely comfortable with that. Finally, I'm not sure you can expect your child to be front of the queue for extra help etc if you take a holiday in school time.

Good point ricuten..don't get me started on the stress leave/sick leave/anything compassionate leave my dcs school have had to contend with. While they were hounding my dcs consultants for proof of the medical condition that puts her regularly in hospital, in spite of the fact she is a high achiever.. half the staff were off on leave!

So I thought I'd join the banter.

My kids school are unbelievable when it comes to these. I wanna strangle the headteacher at one point. I still do. It all started on my fathers passing 2 years ago. It was such a difficult time for me and all they keep throwing in my face was policies. I wanted the headteacher to understand from a parent to another to allow myself to grieve with my mother and siblings. And for my kids to also grieve.It's tiring not to breakdown all the f* time. I almost broke down when she gave me a blunt 2 days or face a penalty. I cried the 2 hour journey on the night my father lost his battle with cancer. I still feel bitter to her about it to this day. But she is partly responsible for the decision.

My mission this year is to give notice for a 'holiday' for next year. So that they will be super duper be advanced aware. 10 days is the maximum they can offer of what I have read. Yes it is a holiday, but planning on going to visit my homeland and showing them and allowing them to experience the culture. This is important for me, no guide book or extensive watching on youtube to show them their country is gonna truly give them that experience.

Can I present my case that yes its a holiday but more for cultural experience. Some kids never get to experience as such and I had to pass the opportunity this year to have an all paid travel for 4 kids and myself.
In my mothers defense, she may never get this chance again to do this with us her kids and grand kids. That's why she is willing to pay almost 7grand. But school policies make me want to strangle someone. Yes they are in place but it is not my intention to take advantage of it. My kids have a good almost perfect attendances, 98.9%.

As a kid I was able to get these days off and I even took some work books with me. And yes, I'm all for taking some school work for my kids to do.

I need advise on what grounds I can counter their policies on.Maybe I should make a new thread to hear what others say.