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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Does it really do any harm??

386 replies

fruitandbarley · 08/02/2017 00:50

Holidays in school time. I'm 40, my parents took me out of school for a week once a year to go on holiday.
I've done ok for myself, don't believe it's affected me in any way.
So AIBU to ask if it's really such a big deal. ( So long as it's not a silly amount of time).
Disclaimer:- I've had wine, any spelling mistakes are due to that and not a week camping in Cornwall when I was 8).

OP posts:
Trifleorbust · 09/02/2017 20:02

mumto2two: Staff have to provide the same evidence for illness as any other employees.

Trifleorbust · 09/02/2017 20:04

I need advise on what grounds I can counter their policies on.Maybe I should make a new thread to hear what others say.

A holiday is not extenuating circumstances. The Head is unlikely to authorise the absence no matter what you say, so I would advise you not to bother.

frumpet · 09/02/2017 20:08

I do think we have been fed a bit of a lie , that all parents who take their children out in term time are doing so because it is cheaper . What about all the people who only get holidays in term time , despite requesting holiday time holidays ?
I think it is a bit of a feminist issue , I could of course give up my job which has limited school holidays , thus giving up any sort of decent pension , I could instead take a job in education which will pay four fifths of fuck all like my friend who is a TA ( who is banking on a substantial inheritance so not concerned about her pension ) . Funnily my DH doesn't have to worry about such trifles as he earns more than me.

SmileEachDay · 09/02/2017 20:09

If the kids in my y11 class missed a week, they'd miss the entire teaching of one, possibly two of the poems in the anthology. If one of them comes up in the exam, they're going to find it very, very difficult.

That's this term. Last term they would've missed chunks of different texts.

With the best will in the world, I don't have time to catch them up - I stick the resources they've missed in their books, but I have no time to do anything else.

ParentalResponsibilty · 09/02/2017 20:11

We've taken our children out of school in England, we travelled for a while and have now settled in a country where none of us speak the language! My 2 DD's are doing fantastic. After 5 months my oldest DD 10 is almost fluent (she is amazing) and my younger DD 8 is well on her way (equally amazing). When I went upstair to tuck them in bed they were both singing 'Let it Go' in French and I was beaming on the landing Grin. As a teacher, before our move I always thought the rules were strict and not always to the advantage of the child. My girls have been on a 2 month road trip and seen amazing cultural landmarks and have benefitted greatly from it. I would not change it for the world.

Trifleorbust · 09/02/2017 20:11

SmileEachDay: I can't believe you stick resources in their books. Very nice of you!

SmileEachDay · 09/02/2017 20:15

I get the kid who sits next to them to write the date and "absent" in the book and tuck the resources in.

Then I do glueing instead of the marking I would've done.

Sometimes the kid doing the date writing also does the sticking.

It's useful for parents evenings and conversations about lack of progress.

That's for all absence, not just holidays.

Trifleorbust · 09/02/2017 20:17

SmileEachDay: Might start doing that!

mumof3boys33 · 09/02/2017 20:18

No I don't think it does any harm for primary age. I think schooling is a lot more important in secondary school. Though there are quiet times like the end of the school year. I was reluctant to keep my year 11 son off for 2 days with a bad cold. He could miss something important. But I thought 2 days in bed is better than him getting much worse and ending up with a week off.

BoomBoomsCousin · 09/02/2017 20:21

Research is pretty clear and shows a strong correlation between days of attendance and academic attainment. There will be many, many people who get PhDs who missed weeks of school for holidays, but there will also be loads of kids who did terribly who also had a lot of time off. On average people who do not attend, do not do as well. And it's a pretty linear correlation, a few days isn't negligible.

What the data doesn't show is causation. It may be that the difference between he people who take time off and do well and the people who take time off and do badly is that the ones who do well would have done even better if they'd attended more regularly. But it may also be that on average, ones who take time off don't value education very much, and the families who do value education but take time off can ameliorate the impact of the absences. Or it may be that kids who don't do well academically are more likely to take time off because they don't enjoy school as much and don't see themselves doing well through the academic route. Or some other conflating factor.

I don't think the government should make it unlawful to take your kids out of school because I don't think it's for the government to set the priority for academic performance for family. There is more to life than being clever and improving GDP. Forcing this behaviour is a step too far in social conditioning for me.

But I do value academic achievement and earning potential for my kids, so I am circumspect about taking my kids out. We can afford holidays in the holiday period (though they'd be "better" holidays if we went off-peak) so it's not a huge conflict for me. If it was I'd be thinking hard about what I thought my kids would get, academically, from the trip before deciding whether to go. I do think there is a lot of value to the odd trip abroad for children. And I think there's a lot of value in forging strong family links too. But I wouldn't be taking them out every other Friday to go a weekend cottage in Brighton (as one of my daughter's classmates did).

MsJamieFraser · 09/02/2017 20:23

no it does not harm them, I fnd it odd to say that missing a weeks school to go on holiday will harm them, but yet a child being off school for a week with illness wont harm them Hmm

Take them on holiday, mine still has holidays, and they will continue to have holidays in school time.

Booboo66 · 09/02/2017 20:23

I'm having to think hard about this issue today, and am completely torn! An opportunity has come up for us to go in May, not just for a beach holiday but back to the country both my DC were born, to visit direct family, close friends my DD grew up with (who speak a different language) and a newborn baby cousin. Dd2 is still in nursery but im really struggling with the idea of taking dd1 (7) out of school for a fortnight. The offer is just too good to turn down though, and ridiculously a week with the exact same details is twice the price! She has 100% attendance this school year so far and has never been late in her whole 2.5 years at school. Only days off in that time have been the last day of term a couple of times and a week in the first year due to chicken pox. Honestly though if she really is going to miss something that will never be revisited, I doubt she'd remember it anyway! Arrgghhh, can't decide Confused

WyfOfBathe · 09/02/2017 20:27

I'm a French teacher. Let's say a DC misses the week in year 7 when I introduce the future tense. They return the next week to a lesson on "a future holiday" (ironically). I want to teach the whole class vocab around holidays, but the DC doesn't know how to form sentences. I have three choices - carry on with the lesson I planned and let that student fall behind, or spend the first 15 minutes explaining what the DC missed and causing all the other students to miss out on learning time, or arrange a meeting with the DC after school (which the DC may not even turn up to). None of those options are universally acceptable.

I do agree with many posters that travelling can be amazingly beneficial. If every student who missed school was going to go on a cultural tour and learn bits of the language - and catch up on the topic under their own steam - I would fully support term time holidays. However, in reality a trip to Butlins or even a trip to an all-inclusive in the South of France isn't going to do much for most children. What I would love is if all trips could be considered on a case-by-case basis, but it's not my decision, it's the government's.

SmileEachDay · 09/02/2017 20:28

Jamie any absence causes the same issue - the difference is that holidays are avoidable, but absence because of illness isn't.

frumpet · 09/02/2017 20:28

Smile do you do the same if they are absent due to illness ? Just curious .

SmileEachDay · 09/02/2017 20:29

Yes, any absence frumpet

AllotmentyPlenty · 09/02/2017 20:30

I would go, Booboo. She is young and this is a specific chance.

MsJamieFraser · 09/02/2017 20:33

I know this "smile" is some peoples mentality, apparently a weeks holiday will harm them and their education will REALLY suffer... yet a weeks illness is not harmful...

My children's education does not stop on school premises, they get educated in everything they do, be that from brushing their teeth, to collecting leaves, or bike riding, everything is a tool to learn something, more so in kids as they are like sponges.

SmileEachDay · 09/02/2017 20:37

I totally agree that education is holistic, Jamie. What happens at home has a massive impact on educational outcomes - we only have them for a few hours every day, 39 weeks of the year. Every hour of that time is planned.

Which is why missing any of them is a problem.

ParentalResponsibilty · 09/02/2017 20:37

I agree Jamie :) the country we have moved to has much longer school holidays. It means that we can spend June/July travelling through Italy this year. My DDs have researched and produced a list of where they would like to visit. There is no better history lesson than a trip to Piza/Rome/ Pompeii etc!

Suchalovelyday · 09/02/2017 20:40

I think the correlation between attendance and achievement needs to be looked st in relation to homework completed, project attainments and effort - in other words, are parents engaged in kids learning? If they're not then the time out will link to that. If the patents are invested in their children's' education then you will see homework always handed in on time, projects etc not a pile of copied shit.

These laws were brought in to combat truancy and lax parental attitudes to education, but are actually only smacking the parents who give a crap, and the others are still not doing the academic work, completing assignments or staying off because they've sucked mum in yo their latest ouchie. We've just spent an hour making a cake. We've covered maths, English, sharing, art and physics. We weren't at school.

Yogimummy123 · 09/02/2017 20:41

What happens if you go on a 10 day holiday when school have refused to let your child off? If I really wanted to go, to see family abroad for example, id go & pay the fine.
I thought that parents are responsible for a child's education & that we agree to let school educate them instead if we don't home educate. Can we not say that we are home educating for a certain period of time?

SmileEachDay · 09/02/2017 20:42

You've also covered food tech and cake studies such

It's a GCSE! It IS! Grin

neveradullmoment99 · 09/02/2017 20:43

Well as long as you dont mind your child missing work then and you [parents] having to get them up to speed i dont mind. I will have done the teaching in the class when said child is on holiday and that will be that. If they have missed out that chunk, the parents will have to fill it in. No problem. Take your child out. Just don't expect the teacher to re-teach what your child has missed. Its up to the parent. It was your choice to have that holiday.

frumpet · 09/02/2017 20:44

So Smile the child who has asthma and is hospitalised due to pneumonia gets treated exactly the same as the child with feckless parents who do a job that doesn't entitle them to the same holidays as you ?