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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Does it really do any harm??

386 replies

fruitandbarley · 08/02/2017 00:50

Holidays in school time. I'm 40, my parents took me out of school for a week once a year to go on holiday.
I've done ok for myself, don't believe it's affected me in any way.
So AIBU to ask if it's really such a big deal. ( So long as it's not a silly amount of time).
Disclaimer:- I've had wine, any spelling mistakes are due to that and not a week camping in Cornwall when I was 8).

OP posts:
BoomBoomsCousin · 10/02/2017 13:03

Hutch your grasp of economics is non-existent there. Provision of holiday accommodation etc. is not some super profit making business where the companies could maintain the supply there is at off-peak prices but just jack up those prices and cream off the extra money in peak season.

If Centre-Parcs, for example, only charged their off-peak prices they wouldn't be able to maintain the same facilities or number of cottages. The "extra" they charge in peak season is an essential part of maintaining the business. If companies were somehow forced to price all their weeks at the same rate it would mean less holiday accommodation available (as companies would not be able to maximize revenue and so could not afford to have cottages sitting empty) and people without children would have less incentive to take holidays outside the school holidays, so there would be more competition for the spaces available. So people with children would be less likely to be able to get the holidays they want anyway. The price would still be expensive though, probably more expensive than current peak prices, because those cottages (now sitting empty off-peak since no one wants to pay full-whack for a week in Feb) still cost the same to build etc, but the holiday company won't be making anymoney out of them for most of the year, so they will still need high prices during the times people want to go on holiday.

grannytomine · 10/02/2017 13:54

I don't know if its just me but there are one or two teachers on here that sound like they are in the wrong job. They are coming across as hating their jobs and maybe the kids.

In case you think I am just anti teacher I will add that two of my kids are teachers and I think they work very hard. They also sound as if they love teaching and the kids.

I explained earlier how my GS is expected to catch up when he misses lessons to take part in sports e.g. get friends to collect handouts for him, borrow friends books to copy up work etc. Why can't kids who go on holiday do the same? I can't believe (sorry I really can't) that teachers are expected to reteach a fortnights work to a child who has been on holiday or even off sick. Both my kids say it doesn't happen, the most they do is reprint a handout of no one remembered to take one or give them a link to something online. In one of the schools they do some lessons on line anyway then do what would normally be homework in school so teacher can help with any misunderstanding so that would make it easier.

Trifleorbust · 10/02/2017 13:59

grannytomine:

My students I love! It's the entitled parents who get my back up!

I can't believe (sorry I really can't) that teachers are expected to reteach a fortnights work to a child who has been on holiday or even off sick

It's called 'doing interventions*. Trust me, it happens.

NarkyMcDinkyChops · 10/02/2017 14:03

My students I love! It's the entitled parents who get my back up!

I think you are lumping a lot of parents into that bracket, unfairly. Not all parents who do things like term time holidays are "entitled".

Trifleorbust · 10/02/2017 14:04

NarkyMcDinkyChops: I am still less inclined to listen each time you post. If you were an English teacher you will know you were wrong. But I think I will leave it at that.

Trifleorbust · 10/02/2017 14:05

NarkyMcDinkyChops: No, I know. Again, you have jumped in feet first. I didn't say every parent was entitled.

NarkyMcDinkyChops · 10/02/2017 14:06

I think you have been incredibly rude to me for no good reason even though I have been nothing but polite to you. It is clear now that you have issues with parents in general. That's fine, that's your issue, its not mine. Smile
I was an English teacher and I was not wrong. Your bias is showing.

Trifleorbust · 10/02/2017 14:08

NarkyMcDinkyChops: And I think you have been very goady and can't complain when people are provoked.

grannytomine · 10/02/2017 14:14

So doing interventions is redoing a fortnight's lessons one to one? I don't think so.

NarkyMcDinkyChops · 10/02/2017 14:15

I didn't provoke you in any way. I wasn't even speaking to you when you had a go at me for no reason.
I thought you were going to leave it at that several posts ago?

Trifleorbust · 10/02/2017 14:19

grannytomine:

Well, firstly, please don't tell me my own experiences!

Secondly, no, this isn't always the case. But I have been expected by some managers to set up 'interventions' at lunch time or after school for any student who is failing to achieve their target. The argument that the reason they failed is that they were absent for a holiday is not considered a strong one by less reasonable managers. This puts the onus on the teacher to refuse. Doing so tends not to go down well.

RachaelCatWhisperer · 10/02/2017 14:22

Unfortunately granny it's very easy to go from loving the job to sounding like you hate it, because the current education system makes it so difficult. I work with secondary and 6th formers with moderate special needs and it's very rewarding in the classroom. If my class of 11 16-19 year olds, 2 can read, and 1 can add numbers above 20. Everyone else is working towards key stage 1 levels. My 3 "high fliers" are only just working at key stage 2.

They're a fun and friendly group who love to experience new things. They love cooking, litter picking, making crafty projects and every afternoon they work together to make tea for each other. But some pillock in an ivory tower has decided that their learning must be evidenced in writing, so we spend our days extracting a verbal sentence from them so they can copy it out, even though they cannot read it. I then spend every evening until at least 9pm planning how to evidence the next ridiculous task instead of teaching them independence and life skills.

I used to love it. I really did. But it's being killed by unrealistic work loads and targets. The 30% I do in front of the kids is great, but the other 70% is diabolical. Why don't we all just quit? Well, most of us are painfully aware that if we don't do the job, who will? And Britain needs her teachers.

If your kids are happy in their jobs in schools they are very lucky. I don't know a single teacher who is genuinely happy in their job, but our passion for the kids keeps us going. At least for now.

grannytomine · 10/02/2017 14:27

Eolian, this struck a chord with me Yes Lumps - teachers don't feel in charge of their teaching, kids aren't in charge of their learning, and parents feel out of the loop too. Dh is a deputy head. There is so much he'd like to change, but his hands are tied. He's in school from 7.30 until 6pm at the earliest every day, works through most holidays, but he just feels like he's forced to be part of the problem, part of the machine and is made to impose stuff on everybody. It's depressing.

My DD was teaching in a school where kids couldn't take jumpers off without permission. She was fed up with lessons being interrupted a dozen times or more as kids asked permission. She decided to give blanket permission at the start of lessons if anyone wanted to take a jumper off. Head arrived when doing an inspection round the school and said, "have these students been given permission to take their jumpers off." DD said yes. She said she felt like a rebel and the kids were all grinning. Mad systems.

grannytomine · 10/02/2017 14:29

Trifle, no of course it isn't always the case. Children who miss school catch up, some children who fall behind haven't missed school. Your interventions aren't all about kids having a holiday.

grannytomine · 10/02/2017 14:31

Rachael, I understand that and my kids have their moments, e.g. jumpergate above. I mean some of the attitudes expressed on here, not all teachers but one or two who sound quite vindictive and bitter.

Trifleorbust · 10/02/2017 14:32

grannytomine: I didn't say they were. I said many teachers are expected to spend their personal time, unpaid, tutoring children whose parents took them out of school for a holiday. Can you honestly say that you think this is fair?

grannytomine · 10/02/2017 14:34

Actually Rachael the daft rules about jumpers and getting you to manufacture evidence is part and parcel of the syndrome that says a child having a weeks holiday is going to ruin their education. That includes a 4 year old at the end of term in reception.

Trifleorbust · 10/02/2017 14:37

grannytomine: No, it doesn't. You can take a 4 year old out of school with no repercussions whatsoever.

Eolian · 10/02/2017 14:38

Good for your dd! It's pleasing to be able to circumvent irritating pointless rules without actually breaking them!

Although what I was mostly referring to was the constant new initiatives and directives which are supposedly implemented to improve students' achievements but are really just more and more ways of measuring things in order to make teachers more and more blameable for any failure of the students to meet their often unrealistic targets (which have often been spuriously forecasted from out-of-date assessment data).

As someone once said, measuring your pig constantly does not make it fatter. And I'd add - making your farm-hand measure the pig so often that they don't actually have time to feed it properly will definitely not make the pig fatter.

RachaelCatWhisperer · 10/02/2017 14:58

granny you will be aware from my previous posts that I fully support a parent to withdraw their child for a holiday. The issue about why teachers sound embittered is a separate one, as is expecting teachers to be responsible for catching them up.

dora38 · 10/02/2017 15:20

User 148.....that is ridiculous . Why is your friend putting in an extra 5 hours a week because a parent decides to take their child out on holiday. I'm a teacher and if someone decides to go on holiday I give them the books and the work and say if you would like to spend a little time every day covering this work then great. If not , I'm afraid I'll be moving onto the next topic. Put it back in the parents hands. Their child , their choice. ...mot his responsibility.

LumpsMum · 10/02/2017 15:38

"Head arrived when doing an inspection round the school and said, "have these students been given permission to take their jumpers off." DD said yes. She said she felt like a rebel and the kids were all grinning. Mad systems"

I think I have heard it all now. Nanny state at its finest Confused

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 10/02/2017 16:05

I don't know if its just me but there are one or two teachers on here that sound like they are in the wrong job. They are coming across as hating their jobs and maybe the kids

Actually examples of this or just another sweeping statement?

riceuten · 10/02/2017 16:10

It's pretty pathetic that most entitled parents think they have some kind of God given right to withdraw their child to save a couple of hundred quid. It's frankly amazing that the self same parents are probably the kind that whine about poor children's behaviour and hark back to the days of sitting in rows of hard desks, mortar boards, gowns, Latin...but not seemingly term time holidays, which would have been unthinkable 40-50 years ago. Teachers very, very rarely get time off during term, and certainly don't dole out requests like parents to do to take their kids to Orlando.

Italiangreyhound · 10/02/2017 16:15

Singing that's so helpful,thank you. "I think that would come across quite well, say it's important that the visit is as soon as. You don't have to specify why. " Actually the relatives are quite a bit older than us so time isn't on their side, if you see what I mean!

anklebitersmum two weeks, maybe. Might make it one week of term and one week of hols. Not sure. Why does it matter where? Can you give me some examples of how this may impact the decision maker, please?