Trump thread continued. Who rules the USA? Vote now.

[amispartacus]

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2844593-Dont-put-the-phone-down-on-this-thread-Treat-it-with-respect-Its-the-official-Trump-thread-8?

Because there's a lot going on.

Well, Ginger, Trump's fan base is touting his election as 'the answer to prayer' so what you say about 'divine right' isn't so far off the mark, is it

1/4 of Americans think God plays a major role in sporting events...
www.prri.org/research/poll-super-bowl-women-sports-god-athletes-marijuana/

Now let's see if I've got the hang of this

Gone to the source of the data
28% of Americans think God played a role in the election
45% of Republicans think God played a role
57% of white evangelical Protestants played a role

I notice there is no actual raw numbers - so no details of who was asked and what they were asked.

Yes yes, thank you for the excellent explanation of the Gish Gallop.

Here's the link again, for anyone who'd like it: rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_gallop

Now I recognise what Gish Gallopers are up to, I think in general I'd go for rebuttal method (2) ie Small Sample Rebuttal: Select a portion of their arguments (first 10, random 10, etc.) and rebut that.

Together with naming the problem, "Woah, that's a whole Gish Gallop of garbage, isn't it? Random splatter of mostly untrue stuff. I could do this all day, but we'd all die of boredom."

Now I recognise what Gish Gallopers are up to

Adds to list.
Gaslighting
Confirmation bias
Dead cat
Alternative facts
Selective exposure
Echo chamber

Just saying

Selective exposure can affect the decisions people make as individuals or as groups because they may be unwilling to change their views and beliefs either collectively or on their own.

A historical example of the disastrous effects of selective exposure and its effects on group dynamics is the series of events leading up to the Bay of Pigs Invasion in 1961.

President John F. Kennedy was given the go ahead by his advisers to authorize the invasion of Cuba by poorly trained expatriates despite overwhelming evidence that it was a foolish and ill-conceived tactical maneuver.

The advisers were so eager to please the President that they confirmed their cognitive bias for the invasion rather than challenging the faulty plan.[5] Changing beliefs about one's self, other people, and the world are three variables as to why people fear new information

I guess we are all guilty of that. It's probably going to be a mind fuck

I wonder if Trump has the Democratic version of Ainsley Hayes..

time.com/4657370/stuart-stevens-quebec-city-mosque/

2 people were murdered in Quebec City last year.

That means that this year's killing at the mosque tripled the murder rate.

But no comment from Trump.

He is too busy keeping 'bad people' out of America.

And rolling back gun laws.

Let's see ami, two 15 minute halves, game starts at 3:30. But you have to factor in time outs and adverts. I'd say half time will be around 6pm, give or take. I have to admit both of us are hoping that Gaga makes a yuge and very obvious political statement. I honestly think the only thing that would stop her would be an iron-clad contract that would result in astronomical monetary penalties for anything truly overt.

I consider myself a Christian and I do believe in the power of prayer. But I also believe that we were given free will and the choice to act for good or evil. And that God Himself operates on the principle of 'beware what you ask for, you may get it'. DH says that 'God doesn't operate on that level' when it comes to sport and other 'little things' like finding lost keys and such. Do I think that God 'fixed' the election for Trump? No, but I don't believe He would have done anything to stop it either. Free will determined the outcome of the election. Prayer, faith, and political activism will get me through the next four years.

Thus endeth the theological lesson for today!

Selective exposure can affect the decisions people make as individuals or as groups because they may be unwilling to change their views and beliefs either collectively or on their own great thought, interesting, and can use it to counter my own views, in very small Daily Heil exposure. or is that a tool of the left to confirm pre existing ideas?

or is that a tool of the left to confirm pre existing ideas

It's very confusing.

I read the DM online and look at Hopkins just to get some alternative views. BUT I do challenge them - because if views aren't challenged, then narratives are formed.

When you know about a topic in more detail, it's amazing to see how superficially people talk about it and the lies spoken - or half truths.

The unemployment rate is coming down. Well, 1 measure of it and that's what's being reported.

OTOH - the EMPLOYMENT rate is not going up. But the PM and the Tory press don't mention that.

Which is why we need effective opposition to challenge narratives.

I haven't even done the trick of zooming in and missing the bigger picture.

Weeds thank you for the Kazakhstan link

FYI - for those of you who may not be aware.

Today is 'Visit your Mosque' day, an initiative run by the British Council of Mulims to encourage community cohesion and forge stronger links between Muslims and their local communities.

Probably a bit late in the day (check Facebook groups for details of visiting hours) but if you wish to, you could lend your support by FB or tweeting local mosques which have participated in the open day.

I strongly believe that actions like this are absolutely essential if we are to overcome the hate and divisiveness of Trump's presidency. I spoke to the lady who'd put up the advert for my local mosque and she said that her parents and their friends are so upset by what is happening, because they are old enough to have seen this before and thought that it had been left behind. She said that her Father is devastated because he thought that his children would be the generation that lived completely free of this kind of treatment and judgement. She was thrilled when I told her about the protests - and about the MN thread!

We have more in common, than what divides us.

MrDacresEUSubsidy brilliant thanks

We have more in common, than what divides us

I remember the reaction of some parents when we 'dared' to take children to a mosque.....

Absolutely MrDacres

If I were a devoutly religious person, I would like to think that I could look at Trump as a test of my faith, not confirmation of it. He is someone that seeks to divide and sow hatred, whereas we should be doing the loving our neighbour thing.

I went to mine BTW and they were lovely. Very very welcoming, desperate for people to ask questions - lots of joking about clearly not having got the 'secret Muslim code' because they didn't know how to build a bomb. It was funny and the jokes were good because terrorism wasn't the elephant in the room. They talked about jihad and what it really meant and how IS did not represent Islam or Muslims. Very open and friendly.

Ami sadly I can believe that only too well. But we can only do what we are already - keep educating, shining a light on untruths and 'alternative facts', reaching out to each other and refusing to be divided.

People can be scared of what they don't understand. Gradually more of us will understand and we should be better united as a result.

Mr - what a nice experience! I would have loved to take my dcs but they're quite stressy today (SNs) and wouldn't have done well. Maybe next time it happens if we're lucky.

But we can only do what we are already - keep educating, shining a light on untruths and 'alternative facts', reaching out to each other and refusing to be divided

And then get damned as educators if we teach children to be critical thinkers, to be open and to try to get on with others.

I do think it's important that ALL aspects of a religion are looked at - not just the positive stuff. That goes for ALL religions - and often, especially at primary school, it's only the positive issues touched on - and not the controversial areas. Same goes for other issues such as the Monarchy (remember schools celebrating the Royal wedding).

Strangely - schools in the US are supposed to be secular and Church and State are supposed to be separate. No one seems to have told Trump that.

People can be scared of what they don't understand

Yes. This.And people can be easily manipulated to believe things about a group if they don't know anything about them and rely on others to give them facts.

I wonder if Trump has actually met many Muslims. Who aren't American...

Has he been to a mosque?

ami I would fall off my chair if DT has ever been in any buildings not related to him, his business or part of a campaign photo op

US president 'doesn't care about making a speech' on UK state visit
www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/05/us-president-doesnt-care-about-making-a-speech-on-uk-state-visit

'Well, I didn't want to do a stupid speech anyway. So there!'

Well, I didn't want to do a stupid speech anyway. So there

Bothered. Me, speech bothered. Do I look bothered. Face, hand, speech bothered...

US president 'doesn't care about making a speech' on UK state visit

Great. We'll be spared the ignominy of him mangling our mother tongue on our home ground in the world's media. We can concentrate on flicking him the bird.

I've been thinking about it & I quite like the Mockingjay salute. I could live with it catching on IRL.