AIBU to think that people who don't have young children who park in parent and child spaces are selfish?

[Kjc105]

I was reading an article on the Daily Fail about a young couple with a baby who were left a note saying that parent and child spaces are for people with children (they were with their baby) but what annoyed me were people commenting under the article who were saying that they always park in parent and child even if there are other spaces available as they feel parents are entitled to too many things and why should they be inconvenienced by people having children. Is it me or is this totally selfish as the reason why those spaces are they are for the safety of the children, more space so other car doors aren't dented and closer to the store so it is generally safer for children and less likely for a child to be hit by a car. AIBU to think these people are selfish?

When my children were small I never used them, I always parked at the back where there were always free spaces with plenty of room around them.

Now my children have grown up I sometimes use them (and bb spaces) because of their proximity to the store. I can't walk more than a few feet and am in constant pain and use serious medication but the powers that be decided I'm not bad enough to warrant a bb.

But mainly I shop online!

(People with disabilities and illness should always use P&C spaces if they need to and anyone who has a go at them for doing so is an utter twat) but I think part of the problem here is that 99% of the time, the exhausted person lugging a baby, a toddler and 5 bags of heavy shopping after 4 hours of sleep is a mother.

So all the comments about lazy, silly parents who are entitled cows are in effect targeted at mothers. That bit isn't fair and is pernicious IMO. (Disablism is also pernicious and people with disabilities have even more societal crap to contend with)

Women do all the bloody hard, exhausting, unglamorous work of raising small children at great cost to their careers, earning power and status in society. Then they get called entitled, lazy, selfish, stupid etc etc for having the temerity to make use of a small but significant facility like P&C spaces.

No, I wouldn't want to push a laden, veering trolley with a newborn in it across a busy car park while holding a wayward toddler by the hand. It's disingenuous to say this is an easy thing to do. Nothing with very little children is easy.

While mothers and people with disabilities and their carers knock lumps out of each other, able-bodied men (whether they are fathers or not) just get on with running the world for their own convenience and nobody calls them names for it.

I will always stand up for the legal and moral rights of people with disabilities but I do wish people would stop insulting mothers simply for doing things like using spaces that are provided for their use or sitting in a coffee shop while in possession of a toddler . It's so hostile and tbh (when mothers do it) self-loathing. You're a mum yourself and no matter how much you voice your dislike of your fellow mothers, when you're out in the world with a small child the kind of people who reflexively hate mothers will be reflexively hating you too. Have some solidarity and stop contributing to the problem.

I think pretty much all posters who are disabled or who are a carer for a disabled person, have said they are helpful thing for parents to use.
There have been some very vocal parents of young children who have said no one regardless of how much need they have, should be able to use them, unless they have a young child. The needs of (frequently) female carers have been dismissed.

Yes, the people who are most vocal about calling mothers entitled and lazy are usually those who are themselves mothers but are not carers and do not have a disability. That's why I put in the bit about self-loathing. It's the mothering equivalent of being a 'cool wife' - I'm hard me, I'm not like all those other tedious mulch cows, I will carry my baby in my teeth across the arctic because I'm terrified someone might call me entitled.

Entirely agree that unpaid female labour (and love) underpins much care for people with disabilities as well as almost all young children. I still think knocking lumps out of each other is dumb, for that very reason.

Have any shops tried having 'higher need' spaces instead of P&C spaces? Would stop the squabbling about mothers vs people with disabilities or mobility issues. In addition to BB spaces, not instead of.

You're all missing OP's point. She is taking about the nasty attitude from DailyMail comments regarding P&C spaces.
She never said those with greater need shouldn't us them.
Clearly there is a need for them as some parents have had to back their car out of a space before loading there children.
We could all be good citizens and let those who need them use them (disabled or small children) without being nasty.
Wouldn't that be nice - oh no - not per you lot!

Yeah, you'd have thought it would just be basic human decency wouldn't you. Same reason you wouldn't deliberately slam the door in the face of someone who was carrying a massive parcel or walking with the aid of a stick. But people who would never do that will merrily and deliberately make life difficult for mothers, in an effort to prove something. Then scream ENTITLED when she gets pissed off.

The problem is the "I can't possibly leave the house without a p and c space" brigade. As I said earlier in the thread they seem to have created a sense of helplessness for a lot of parents which is never good.

It really doesn't need to be complicated. If a space is free and you feel you need it use it. If not park elsewhere.

Thank you bittorrent123 this thread has completely gone off tangent and the vast majority of people agree with the use of the spaces for those with a need but I was referring to the daily mail comments saying women feel entitled and those who are able bodied parking there to spite parents (mainly mothers) who have the audacity to use a space that makes their lives just that little bit easier. Yes it's their choice to have a baby but surely people who are able bodied shouldn't sniff at having to walk a little bit further to allow a parent/s a safer place to park their car. In my loca Sainsbury's, there are p & c spaces that go all the way to the back of the car park and have no problem with that whatsoever, it still allows me to open car doors fully so I can safely put my baby in his seat. It's the ignorant people who think women feel 'entitled' who park there to prove a point who I feel are selfish not disabled users.

It's very simple - it would just be really nice if people who have no need for a wider space would park in a normal one.

If only it was that simple. I think it is but people are using the spaces as a protest for the fact parents get closer and wider spaces. Like I've said earlier, I think most parents wouldn't mind having spaces at the back of the car park as long as there was a safe walkway for their children

Perhaps we need 'accessible' wider spaces near the store and at the back of the car park with a trolley park nearby with suitable trolleys. This would be in addition to the bb spaces. They would be for anyone who feels they need the extra space and in the case of the ones near the store, closeness to the store.

Cars are getting bigger, spaces stayed the same size. So for the people asking "what did we do before?" well you were able to open your door wide enough to safely get your baby out of the car

Actually we've always had big cars and vans. What we did, and I said it before on the thread, was park a little further back on the supermarket car park away from most other cars. There's no reason generally why you have to be right near the front door. I still park away from the crowd as it's easier to pull out without having people walking to their cars going past you as you try to pull out or cars waiting for your space.
I'm fully supportive of BB spaces and at some supermarkets I think there should be more. I'm not so convinced about Pand C spaces.

I don't have children, I've never parked in a parent and child space but the fact that they are the nearest spaces to the door irks me greatly. I'm normally popping in to the supermarket for one or two items speed through the basket only till then the walk to my car takes double the time! If we have checkouts for people that only need a few items why can't we have parking spaces we th a 15 min wait? Also I would venture that if you can't open your door without the fear of sinking the car next to you you need a smaller car!

SpartacusWoman

Perhaps we need 'accessible' wider spaces
The problem with this is they then become like disabled loos. The amount of people on here who interpret accessible as a free for all rather than accessible for those with a need is unbelievable.

Yes they are bloody selfish. I have no issue disabled people using them but an able bodied adult being lazy winds me up, in a normal space it's bloody hard to get my 6 month old out and not bash the car door.
Some spacs are so tight i've had to get out with her in the road then hubby pulls into the space as not enough room once in the space to open the door much

I only opened this thread because I couldn't understand why it had got so long. I thought it was obvious that only people with children should park there, except for disabled people who should park wherever is easiest for them. Why does anyone want to make other people's lives any harder than they need to be?

Hmmm, mostly god yes, they are for people who need the extra space to get in and out of the car. That means people with disabilities and people with young children.

However, I did once park there before I had DD because the P&C spaces were under a cover and I'd just had a very expensive hairdo. It was pouring with rain, it was almost 10pm, and ALL the spaces were empty. So about 10 disabled spots and about 15 P&C spots. Plus lots of ordinary spaces that were much nearer the door - I deliberately used the one that was furthest from the doors. I was 2 minutes, just buying a bottle of wine (I was going over to the bf's house).

When I came back, all the spaces were still empty, but a man with a massive 4x4 was blocking me. I waited patiently for a bit, then I flashed, then I beeped. Nothing. Eventually I braved the rain and went over to him. He put down the window, and I asked if he could move. He said:

"Oh, sure. As soon as that small child I'm sure you're waiting for comes out of the supermarket."

I mean, what an absolute twat!!! His own kids, who looked like teenagers, were writhing in the back. I was cross by this time, as there really were lots of empty spaces. I pointed them out and explained that I would never normally use them, but I needed one that was under cover. He turned off his engine and folded his arms.

So I shouted that embarrassing your kids and dragging them to the supermarket at 10pm was probably worse, and went to get a security guard. Who told him not to be a twat and made him move.

Soooooo: mostly leave them for the people who need them, but there are SOME occasions when the parent is the bigger twat!

I haven't rtft but just agreeing with everything tres said!

Women and mothers are our own worst enemies!

I loathe the sneery attitude of "well in my day we didn't have parent and child spaces and coped just fine".

So fucking what?

They're available now, how is this even a valid argument? Once upon a time they also didn't have baby monitors - something also unnecessary but convenient. Should I throw mine in the bin because once they didn't exist?

Honestly I think some people believe parents should just make life as hard as possible for themselves and apologise to everyone who crosses their path for having the audacity to breed AND leave the house with their offspring too 😱😱😱

Also my local Sainsbury's has P&C spaces at the other end of the car park and a walkway to the shop entrance - although I find it amusing that someone actually sneered that this earlier, because you know its just so precious and hilarious to think of making car parks a safer place for children and prevent accidents or fatalities, you bloody snowflakes

did anyone actually read this whole fucking thread? 300 messages on shit that's been done 100 times before.

tedious as fuck

I never understand why non parents park in the parents bit... what with kids occasionally throwing open the door too wide and the meltdowns where trolleys are less controlled than one would desire. who would risk it.

maybe there needs to be a child with autism corner of the carpark where the battered scratched kicked cars get to park all together and not give a shit about another dent...

disabled spaces are full at our local supermarket regualraly. nearly all of them have blue badges on display.

and also to those who sneer at parents who have kids... who the fuck do you think is going to be paying your state pension? those grown up kids going out to work whiele you are retired..

OP: "people who have problems with their knees who struggle to walk surely shouldn't be driving or should be dropped by the entrance?"

Really?? You are here arguing that pp should make allowance for women who CHOOSE to have kids, while at the same time you want to further limit pp who have minor disabilities, NOT of their own choosing?? You are very selfish.

Agree it's just courtesy not to park in a P n C space if you've no kids and no mobility issues. Doesn't make parents 'entitled' to think that way. Doesn't make them 'special snowflakes' either- just because they choose to do something that makes life a little bit easier, why would anyone not? Can't figure out if all the parent-belittling on here comes mainly from those with no kids, or those with kids who for some reason feel they have to pretend to be supermum and scorn anyone who admits parenting can be hard. If you're a non parent and want to park in a p n c space- knock yourself out, I won't lose sleep over it, I would just think you're a bit mean-spirited, and hope I manage to bring my oh-so-troublesome car space occupying DC up to have more respect for other people, whatever their needs may be.