To report my colleague for hitting me

[QueenyLaverne]

Colleague (quite substantial guy) who's job is to bring supplies up to our floor, brought some stuff up. He came to find me, I was on break, to tell me and did so in a very sarcastic way. Not unusual, he is a sarky bastard and we don't like him much, but hey ho we tolerate him and are nice to him. I jokingly pulled him up on it and said something like, 'oh, who do you think your talking to!' 'Laugh laugh' he said something else and I was holding a newspaper which I pretended to hit him with, it tapped him with as we were having banter.
He then comes at me and walloped me on my arm, it really hurt, my arm was still hurting at the end of my shift and I felt really quite tearful, not from the pain, (although it did really hurt) but more because I felt really violated.
Can you tell me if I'm being overly sensitive or if this is unacceptable behaviour and should be reported?
AIBU?

Well, I have RTFT and must say it is the most ridiculous thing I have ever wasted two hours on! I am not at all sure why it has turned into a black and white was he wrong or was she wrong - there were many things wrong with this incident.

The OP AIBU was "Can you tell me if I'm being overly sensitive or if this is unacceptable behaviour and should be reported?
AIBU?"
No YANBU, Yes it was unacceptable behaviour and you SHOULD report it but bear in mind the following:

First person speaks "in a very sarcastic way" - UNACCEPTABLE. I would be addressing this poor attitude under usual line management process
"I jokingly pulled him up on it" ILL ADVISED as it is already established that the first person is unpopular and "tolerated" I would be offering advise
"and said something like, 'oh, who do you think your talking to!'" UNACCEPTABLE - especially with the poor conduct of the first person and the idea that the OP is "pulling up", i.e. challenging the first person. I would be addressing this poor attitude under usual line management process
'Laugh laugh' - IMPOSSIBLE TO TELL
"he said something else " - IMPOSSIBLE TO TELL
"I was holding a newspaper which I pretended to hit him with" ILL ADVISED - there is not a friendly relationship here
"it tapped him with" - UNACCEPTABLE, even though we find out later this was an open paper - we also discover here that the previous statement was inaccurate - it was not "pretended to hit" as contact was made I would be taking disciplinary action, even if just a verbal warning.
"as we were having banter" ILL ADVISED - banter is not appropriate when the parties do not like each other, it is a cover for unacceptable behaviour and could be used as an excuse for bullying (possible from either side in this case)
"He then comes at me and walloped me on my arm" - GROSS MISCONDUCT - we find out later the "wallop" was an open handed slap that caused pain -I would be considering dismissal but if not then definitely disciplinary action.

So clear behaviours that need addressing through normal line management/performance management and actions clearly worthy of disciplinary action. The consequences of the disciplinary would be dependent on the results of an investigation and any other incidents on record.

It's all a question of proportionality - Nobody comes out of this well and I am so glad I don't work in this environment! Criminal Law would have a different perspective but this wouldn't pass the "public interest" test and as the only witness "was not within sight" of the actual incident then it fails the "evidence" test as well so it wouldn't be going anywhere near any court.

Wow, that was long!

Just popped back to see if the defenders of violence are still telling heir tall tales.

Oh yes, they are....shocking, shocking, shocking people who think that pretending to swat at someone with a newspaper and tapping them with it during a time of mutual banter and sarcasm deserves a slap. Shame on you!

Any HR service that defends this attitude is barking mad!

I really hope anyone who has suffered any violence at work does not take this twaddle at all seriously. And that includes the OP.

Italian - I hope that wasn't aimed at me. She did not deserve a slap - he was out of order.
However, this was not mutual banter and sarcasm - she says he is a "sarky bastard", her banter ended with her "shooing him" with a newspaper which is when she overstepped the mark. His response was wrong but that does not mean that OP was right.

How are you going to explain that you playfully hit him with a newspaper first? Maybe he was whacked around the head by one when he was a child and it was his automatic 'fight or flight' response. I think you should let this one lie but definitely report any unprovoked assaults.

seesensepeople it was not aimed at you. I had not read your post.

However, you said "...this was not mutual banter and sarcasm" - well, clearly it was.

mimishimmi, the encouragement to let this lie and not challenge blatantly violent behaviour on the basis that the man may have been hit with a newspaper as a child is ridiculous.

italian it clearly wasn't.. what are you reading?

seesensepeople talks sense.

Banter between unfriendly people will never end well. Play hitting of any kind in a professional setting will not end well.

Ill advised behaviour on both parts which requires line manager intervention.

The man hit by a newspaper when he was a child!?!?! Please please tell me the person who posted that gem is being facetious. Lollol

borrowedheart The Opening post...

" He came to find me, I was on break, to tell me and did so in a very sarcastic way. Not unusual, he is a sarky bastard and we don't like him much, but hey ho we tolerate him and are nice to him. I jokingly pulled him up on it and said something like, 'oh, who do you think your talking to!' 'Laugh laugh' he said something else and I was holding a newspaper which I pretended to hit him with, it tapped him with as we were having banter."

You may not believe the OP, but that is what she said, we were having banter.

One last time Italian, nobody deserves a slap or any aggressive physical contact. Including the man the OP "pretended to hit / tapped / shooed / swatted".with a newspaper. Just because the man was I. The wrong in his faction (and he was very very wrong indeed) does not mean the OP's actions are immune from criticism.

If her post had ended with her swatting him with the paper, with no reaction from the colleague, and she asked for views on her behaviour, AND if the colleague was a woman, I would still say she was behaving unreasonably and unprofessionally. You are extremely naive if you don't think any HR office would say the same. She did not act correctly, she is now aware of that thanks to this thread and is probably better off as she won't be shocked when HR points it out. In fact, she already half-knew - if she had been sitting quietly in the room and the colleague came past and 'walloped' her with no prior interactions, she would definitely have reported it.

Surely you can acknowledge that two things are wrong, without them necessarily being equivalent to each other or without the more serious one cancelling the lesser one. If my child was caught stealing from a shop and the shopkeeper hit him, the shopkeeper would be very wrong and I would be furious and defend my child from being hit. But the child would still have been wrong to steal. He didn't deserve to be hit, but both parties were still wrong, to different degrees.

did so in a very sarcastic way
jokingly pulled him up on it
we were having banter

These are all judgements. Not facts. One person's perception of sarcasm, jokes and banter is another's bullying.

@AskBasil

You quoted me as saying "Okay, I admit it. I think that a woman's accusation against a man isn't enough to prove him guilty."

Why do you think this is so ludicrous?

It was in reply to another poster suggesting that "A man hits a woman hard and there are people here questioning it".

I don't think it makes a woman a lesser one if they want to question something. In fact, it makes them better.

I left a lecture last year where a PhD (God knows how) said that questioning whether a woman had been raped was holding back society. She honestly believed that an allegation of violence by a woman towards a man should automatically be believed and held to lower standards of proof than other crimes. Fucking, nonsense as was the comment I replied to.

Do you think that no questions should be asked of the OP? She accused him and everyone should nod sagely because she's a woman and he's a man?

I think the crux is more likely the "who do you think you're talking to" whack. But then if he's hit you out on retaliation that's much worse than 'banter' because the intent to hurt you is there rather than accidently did it too hard. Only you know OP whether he was joking with you or not.

I am disgusted by the people defending him.
OP please report him and ignore some of the crazy responses you've had on here.

But you hit him first!

What makes you think it is right to violate him?

You are both wrong by the way. Totally unacceptable. I hope you learned your lesson. And do report him, so he learns his lesson too.

She
Knows
Hitting
Him
With
The
Paper
Was
Wrong

People are agreeing his response was disproportionate. Where we disagree is that I think unless there is a witness or bruising it will be impossible to prove his response was disproportionate as it will be his word against hers as to how hard they hit each other, and she started it.
I think reporting this will just cause stress and both will be disciplined.

Only you know OP whether he was joking with you or not.

Very true, but then only he knows if she was 'joking' with her 'banter' or not. IME you don't 'banter' with people you openly say you don't like.

sycamore54321 "One last time Italian, nobody deserves a slap or any aggressive physical contact"

Good then we are in agreement.

You can talk to me one last time as often as you like, although presumably you mean it, so you wont!

"She did not act correctly, she is now aware of that thanks to this thread and is probably better off as she won't be shocked when HR points it out."

Or she will be so cowed by the comments on here she will be dissuaded from reporting this man! As many women are because men and other women make excuses for men's violent actions for 'who knows what personal and cultural' reasons.

"In fact, she already half-knew - if she had been sitting quietly in the room and the colleague came past and 'walloped' her with no prior interactions, she would definitely have reported it."

Of course but that is not what happened, we all know what happened, she has said it, we have read it and re read it. We all know she swatted at him with the newspaper.

No one is arguing that fact.

I would argue that she did not intend for it to tap him. As she said "which I pretended to hit him with".

Do I think she was wise? NO.

Do I think she was to blame for him hitting her hard on the arm? NO

Do I think she should report him? YES

Would I report him in similar circumstances? YES unless he followed it up with an immediate and massive apology and realization that he crossed a line, "Oh I am so sorry that was not what I intended at all, shall we put some ice on that, are you?"

By the same token if I swatted a newspaper at a colleague during banter and lightly touched him with it and he said 'ouch' or that was inappropriate or something, I would follow up with an apology and say I am sorry that was not intended etc.

The OP has not said so I am presuming he neither questioned her swatting at him with the newspaper nor apologized for his slap on her arm.

What a number of posters have done is suggest that their actions were equally wrong. I do not agree.

That she should not report. I do not agree, she should report, or at least log this with HR as an incident.

"Surely you can acknowledge that two things are wrong, without them necessarily being equivalent to each other or without the more serious one cancelling the lesser one." Of course I can. But the context here was joking around. Has she walked up and tapped him with a newspaper of course it would be a surprise and unpleasant and totally wrong. But it looks to me like an accident that happened during joking around. In her shoes I would be totally 'happy' to apologise if it ensured the incident was logged. I would even manage to say it with a straight face.

I am sorry I tapped you with a newspaper while joking around and pretending to hit you with the newspaper. It was not my intention to tap you with the newspaper. And I want to assure you that from now on all my communication with you will be strictly on a professional basis with no attempt at conversation or joking at all, and I hope you will likewise stick to this plan going forwards."

I expect HR will be fucking pissing themselves later over that, but if it meant I never had to have anything other than strictly work-related conversations with the man I would be happy to do it.

I wonder what he would be required to do?

We all know stealing is wrong, this comparison is hopeless. Find a better one if you want to convince me of anything!

Dione "
These are all judgements. Not facts. One person's perception of sarcasm, jokes and banter is another's bullying."

Then what is the point of pontificating on this thread.

Atsea what does " whack" mean? Is that the sound of the newspaper tapping the man's arm?

I don't know why anyone is still bothering now. I bet the OP has realised that HR will tell her she's in trouble too and has crept off back to her department to snigger at and mock other members of the company, while presumably telling her friends how, quite unprovoked she was violently assaulted by a bully who beat her unconscious and had to be dragged off her.
(Note to other potential OP's - consistency is better, and take it easy with the tales of tears and being violated when you've not come even close)

Googlebabe "But you hit him first!" No, she tapped him accidentally I would say with a newspaper during some banter!

"What makes you think it is right to violate him?" WHAT are you talking about!

"I hope you learned your lesson." I fear the OP has learn that women are far more intereted in being PC than challenging men's bad behaviour.

"And do report him, so he learns his lesson too" Good advice Googlebabe, I hope the OP takes it.

PigletWasPoohsFriend I think women in engage in banter all the time with men they don't like as a way to keep them at bay!

2rebecca "Where we disagree is that I think unless there is a witness or bruising it will be impossible to prove his response was disproportionate" lack of proof should not stop people reporting things. It may mean nothing is done but there is a record of what was said.

" and she started it." Based on the OP's words do you think she meant to tap him with the paper? Honestly, or do you think it was an accident?

If you accidentally pushed a shopping trolley into someone in a shop would you feel you had 'started it?' I am not being foolish I genuinely would like to know if you think:

Her action (tapping him with paper) was accidental?
If you thin his hitting her so hard was accidental? That is that he intended to hit her but no so hard?

Differing opinions on this thread, and for that reason I do not think the OP should report it. We don't know what her HR' department's interpretation will be.
It is OK the arm chair feminists on here telling her what to do, but the OP has to live with the consequencesShe has little to gain, and a lot to lose by reporting.