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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To report my colleague for hitting me

821 replies

QueenyLaverne · 31/01/2017 21:43

Colleague (quite substantial guy) who's job is to bring supplies up to our floor, brought some stuff up. He came to find me, I was on break, to tell me and did so in a very sarcastic way. Not unusual, he is a sarky bastard and we don't like him much, but hey ho we tolerate him and are nice to him. I jokingly pulled him up on it and said something like, 'oh, who do you think your talking to!' 'Laugh laugh' he said something else and I was holding a newspaper which I pretended to hit him with, it tapped him with as we were having banter.
He then comes at me and walloped me on my arm, it really hurt, my arm was still hurting at the end of my shift and I felt really quite tearful, not from the pain, (although it did really hurt) but more because I felt really violated.
Can you tell me if I'm being overly sensitive or if this is unacceptable behaviour and should be reported?
AIBU?

OP posts:
Italiangreyhound · 01/02/2017 01:32

bumsex OK, you didn't ask for a picture, I got that wrong. I do that a lot. Apologuies.

I hope OP gets some justice at work.

OP do let us know how it all works out, please. All the best. Off to catch some zzzzs. Wink

Snotgobbler99 · 01/02/2017 01:49

As far as I can understand it, userformallyknownasuser1475360 has summed up the situation fairly comprehensively. If you take this further, OP, you'll probably come off as badly as the bloke who hit you.

Speaking as a male who has worked with violent people, I am always careful about how I behave towards other men who aren't close acquaintances, and I suspect that most other 'normal' guys do the same.

I wouldn't ever "tap" or "pretend to tap" a bloke that I didn't know really well with a newspaper, or anything else, because I simply wouldn't know how he'd respond. Some might see it as a joke, some might be offended but do nothing and some might just attack me. Before you do it, there's no way of telling. If you don't know them, you really don't know what might trigger them.
For all you may know he might be ex SAS with PTSD and on a hair trigger (and, yes, he might very easily be the weirdo working in the stores...).
Similarly, he might just be a poor, unhappy sod who's been bullied since the year dot and has learnt through bitter experience that lashing out gets the bullies off his back.

This isn't to excuse what the guy did but it's plausible that he took the banter/newspaper as a threat and lashed out. Some people do that because it's the only way they know. It's the reason why banter isn't a good idea in the workplace unless you know the person you're teasing very well.

The threat of violence from these kinds of men isn't something that's stored up uniquely to use against women, although it's often women who take the brunt of it. Violent men are just as likely to pick on other men; however the outcomes are different because it's harder to hurt someone who's perhaps a bit bigger than the average woman and may be a bit more experienced in both deflecting and avoiding violence. (More men have some experience of contact sports, women less so. I'm a small, fast, ex-rugby player, you might try to hit me but you'd need to be very good at throwing punches to actually make contact. The last chap who tried, telegraphed it from a mile away and broke his hand on the wall behind me...).

I live near a rough council estate, one of the roughest in the country. However, if you go to the Lidl, close by, the manners between shoppers are impeccable compared to the M&S in the city centre, where trolley rage is rampant. Why? Because the guy in Lidl is much more likely to have a baseball bat in the boot of his car.

Mermaidinthesea · 01/02/2017 02:06

It's disgusting and unacceptable, however, you shuld not have touched him with the newspaper at all wether it was jokey or otherwise.
I'd say leave it, learn a lesson from this and try and be a bit more professional at work in future.
We should all have strict colleague boundaries that shouldn't be crossed.

glitterazi · 01/02/2017 02:22

There's 15 pages and its 2am so not read all the replies. You said "who do you think you're talking to?" and "play" smacked him on the arm with a newspaper.
He presumably "play" smacked you back, as that's the stance you took when you reacted. He did it in a similar fashion.

BellaMoon · 01/02/2017 02:28

@italiangreyhound

"BellaMoon what you suggest is very sensible but I find your conclusions drawn on this and the other things you state most worrying. You can bascially excuse anything if you talk about it the right way. A man slapping a woman's arm, your female colleague slapping you."

in the interests of conversation and by no means an retort, id like to confirm that i didn't conclude anything in my initial comment just asked that the aggrieved OP look at the situation as objectively as possible as, she admits, there was a two way interaction.

I also do not disbelieve the OP, as you point out that you do believe her i wanted to make sure you knew i didn't oppose that.

what i make reference to, and i hope i was clear, but incase not, we are reading this incident as detailed by someone who is upset, emotional, who sees themself as the victim - all taken from the account of the incident in her own words. I also say to OP that these are her feelings and for that matter taken as read, not in question at all.

someone recounting a story with these factors will use language that adds perspective to facts hence why i attempted to recount the incident removing these emotive words/terms/aspects.

to look at the incident from a completely impartial view, i think you are then able to form a opinion (for what they are worth)!

i appreciate your bike recollection. and if i may, point out that you reflected on that incident, in particular your own actions and how they caused a reaction, and you amended your behaviour to avoid ever putting yourself in that situation ever again?! the same can be applied here, without actually bringing blame into it. just consider how you felt as the outcome of that incident, that was enough to make you want to avoid it. this is exactly the self reflection i would encourage in any situation where two parties may have caused distressed to one another.

yes apportioning blame is inevitable as we should all, as grown adults, be accountable. that, in this case, should be presented to an HR department to decide.

As you point out, OPs colleague said something sarcastic which, in some way, started the whole thing. my example regarding someone not reading social ques
due to having a diagnosis of being on the autistic spectrum was for both his own comments and how he perceived others. it is possible that he is saying something rather matter of fact in his opinion that someone else would perceive to be sarcastic. two way street here! his abrupt "time to get back to work" (or words to that effect) could be entirely his views rather than her perception of sarcasm/banter. i hope that makes sense. an example here is that i called work to inform i had a blow out on the motorway, the day after taking time off for an MOT, my colleague stated "ok so two car issues in two days, would you say that's a coincidence". to me it sounded sarcastic, but to him, he was merely stating fact.

What if my colleague had scalded me with hot coffee when she was instantly reacting to being frightened/her personal space perceived to be at risk... good point but i don't see how the level of blame increases due to severity of injury i'm afraid. her reaction was instant, animal like if you will, almost automatic and without a second thought. what is worth pointing out here is we were both sorry and apologetic. i did not mean to frighten her (no malice) and she did not mean to lash out (no malice). i'm sure she would have been more apologetic should my injuries have been more
severe. perhaps this is something OP should explore... are both colleagues willing
to discuss and make apologies. it very well could be be the case that her colleagues feels terrible for causing her upset to the degree clearly detailed but also feels that he would appreciate an acknowledgement if she upset him in some way?? of course, the contrary could be the case and he's a big, rude, bullying, cease the opportunity to strike a colleague, bastard!! i will
never know.

I am intrigued to hear of how this matter is resolved, which i truly hope it isSmile

YouCanStandMeUpSpartacus · 01/02/2017 02:55

Oh for goodness sake. Flapping a newspaper at someone is not "violence" or "assault". Ignore these ridiculous posters. There is no excuse for this man's violence OP. Please report it to HR. I'm sure they will take it seriously.

Unfortunately, as soon as there is a post on Mumsnet involving any kind of disagreement between a man and a woman, a bell goes off somewhere on the internet and along come the posters determined to tell us that the woman is at fault and has wronged, provoked, deceived the poor, poor man, regardless of the circumstances. Draw your own conclusions Hmm

Italiangreyhound · 01/02/2017 03:09

Bella re most worrying OK noticed it now!

"we are reading this incident as detailed by someone who is upset, emotional, who sees themselves as the victim - all taken from the account of the incident in her own words"

Yes that is a very good point. I do tent to feel very empathetic so I probably could not do the job of careful analysis because I'd probably be swayed by both sides, I need more cool objectivity! Blush

Bike incident, I was to blame, I did blame myself, but there was not any 'sanction' for me thankfully.

"i don't see how the level of blame increases due to severity of injury i'm afraid." But it does, doesn't it, legally, morally, there are consequences.

"what is worth pointing out here is we were both sorry and apologetic." I am guessing you are female and females are conditioned to be conciliatory, peace makers, and all. Maybe you are both British and we apologize if someone else steps on our foot!

I'm not surprised you both apologized. I'd be more surprised if you did not.

"i'm sure she would have been more apologetic should my injuries have been more" Sure but the real thing is why is she so nervous she needs to react like that? I expect you now give her a wide birth.

"are both colleagues willing to discuss and make apologies." This is where I get very uncomfortable, I don't think anyone (especially women) should be apologizing to men who are aggressive to them.

"it very well could be be the case that her colleagues feels terrible for causing her upset to the degree clearly detailed but also feels that he would appreciate an acknowledgement if she upset him in some way??"

It may be, but I am not sure it is. I don't think he was upset, I think he was mean and nasty. And I think when we excuse that kind of behavior we give people liberty to be more mean and nasty.

But we can agree on one thing.... "I am intrigued to hear of how this matter is resolved, which i truly hope it is" me too!

Nigh night (I am still waiting to go to bed, keep getting distracted!)

misshelena · 01/02/2017 03:10

But you did miss out that he spoke initially in a '...very sarcastic way'.

Nope Italian. Here again is Bella's quote:

"colleague approached me....i did not appreciate his tone.... i stated "who do you think you are talking to" and made contact with his person..."

Easy to miss when one has a strong bias eh Italian?

Italiangreyhound · 01/02/2017 03:15

"Easy to miss when one has a strong bias eh Italian?" indeed, yes Misshelena I do have a strong bias. I'm not always right. I'll be the first to admit that! Thanks

Moonywormtailpadfootprongs · 01/02/2017 03:36

YABU.

This is just the perfect excuse for you to get him in trouble considering you don't like him.

If you hit/flick someone prepare to be hit back. If it hurt as much as you claim, you would have said something then and there. I don't know anyone who gets an open palm slap and has no immediate reaction... like an "ouch that hurt" etc etc.

Maybe the flick hurt him... people's pain threshold has nothing to do with their size.

BellaMoon · 01/02/2017 03:51

@italiangreyhound

i am a natural "devils advocate" type, comes
with the job. i do it instinctively which infuriates my DH lol.

i would encourage you to review your comment just now to me which mentions something along the lines of giving people room for excuses. you are honest (which is appreciated) in saying you have "taken a side" so you only see this from your perceived victims stance.

by being as impartial as possible, i could say the exact same thing about has the OP taken a liberty here? what if (so many ifs in this case) the big bloke didn't retaliate and the post was therefore "how dare my colleague report me for making contact with him with a newspaper and being sarcastic in front of colleagues, it was only banter". so because the big bloke colleague retaliated (again not saying it is justified/force etc) that then gives the OP room for excuses, IE he retaliated, which then automatically minimises/removes her actions?

Now, this is all completely devils advocate to your stance as you say you have come on as you instantly sympathised with the post (the language, terminology, emotion therein). i can't help but always explore alternative view points.

I completely disagree - climbing down off the fence now - that a woman shouldn't need to apologise for her actions if they have offended/intended to cause offence/ hurt someone emotionally or physically. Why does gender come in to the moral obligation to be a decent human being - if she upset me, i would want an apology so why wouldn't a man? are men wired so that they are immune to feeling hurt/entitled to apologies? sorry, no!

Again, gender is irrelevant when apologies are on the table. my colleague and i apologised to each other as i didn't mean to startle her causing her upset (like is possible in the case of OP towards her colleague) and my colleague apologised to me for instinctively lashing out striking me on the arm (like is possible in the case of the colleague toward OP).

all possible, plausible and i hope giving OP room for thought before she highlights it to HR. only in the sense that being objective in a situation can often come across as more reasonable than going on the total offence.

I'm in the wide awake club... caffeine to blame Confused

NightWanderer · 01/02/2017 04:06

No one should be hitting anyone. Banter isn't being polite, being polite is being polite. Next time he comes just say thank you for the delivery and say no more. Ignore his tone and be polite and professional.

If my toddler who's a girl hits my eldest who's a boy and he hits her back hard, they both get a bollocking. I hate all this don't hit girls stuff. it should be don't hit, full stop.

ShastaBeast · 01/02/2017 04:56

Op - cutting through the utter tripe that is oh so fucking typical of mumsnet - please do report this, perhaps just as a note on file with no further action. If this has happened before you may not know and it may happen again, your report may prevent it happening again, regardless of the rights or wrongs. I'd completely avoid this man in future. If he speaks to you just politely brush it off, he'll probably get the message. I don't know how you'd be able to act as before with him. It's definitely best to avoid any banter at work, I've got into trouble in the past for misjudging when younger, and it's not always what you say but the fact you said it, even if someone said much worse before.

Meridien · 01/02/2017 05:00

You're both in the wrong. There are at least two definitions of assault in law, there may well be more, common law and statute. Any unwanted touching (you to him with the newspaper) is an assault, not sure whether this is statute or common law, but I know it’s still law. I supported a friend, the victim in a court case that rested on this. Putting someone in immediate fear of violence, which depends pretty much on the victim’s (and a judge or jury’s) view of it, is assault under the Offences Against the Person Act 1861, I think it’s section 47, s.49 of the same Act deals with battery which involves actual physical contact. If the man argues that he thought you were going to hit him, you’d have a case to answer, sorry.
The way you describe it, it sounds like his reaction was way OTT, but was it that to him? It matters. You know something of his character and it sounds like your reaction wasn’t well considered given what you know. That it probably wouldn’t have been a problem with another colleague doesn’t matter.
He inflicted pain and distress on you, that’s clear, for which he should take responsibility, that’s totally unacceptable in any circumstances, so you should definitely go to HR, but be prepared to take some responsibility.
It’s especially important in a work context to remember that making someone think you’re going to hit them, is assault that can carry a five year prison sentence. It’s not what ‘everyone else’ would think is reasonable, it’s what that individual, with his/her own personal character, thought that matters. Unfortunately HR departments rarely see it that way even if they know the law. I was working at Railtrack when someone a little senior to me got angry and came at me yelling and waving his arms. I was scared but stood my ground. He backed off at the last minute. My line manager said I was being unreasonable to complain so I phoned the police who were only a few minutes walk away. A police sergeant came and put my line manager right. The person who came at me was moved to another location afterwards but wasn’t reprimanded. Hardly fair on the people he was moving to work with, but the work environment is like that.

ShastaBeast · 01/02/2017 05:12

Nightwanderer - how awful, not great parenting there. If my youngest, as a toddler had hit my eldest and my eldest disproportionately hit back hard, I may tell them both off but I'd be more unhappy with my eldest and make that clear. The eldest is bigger and stronger meaning they have much greater power over the younger, this is frightening and potentially dangerous. Nothing to do with sex, everything to do with size and strength. Your ignoring this fact by claiming 'sexual equality' is negligence and you would be failing your youngest by not protecting them. My children are the same sex so it's purely size and strength. My husband is massively bigger and stronger than me, I have to trust him far more than he me when it comes to physical safety. My hitting him isn't right or excusable, but is unlikely to cause as much harm as him hitting me. Same as me hitting my kids or my eldest hitting my youngest. It isn't about sex it's about phyiscal size and strength, most of the time there is a direct correlation, but not always and abuse isn't just physical. But we'd be idiots to ignore the difference.

Mummyoflittledragon · 01/02/2017 05:25

You said you are prepared to own the consequences. So I'd report. Otherwise this man is getting away with assault.

GnomeDePlume · 01/02/2017 06:08

A good general rule to take away from this: dont touch your colleagues

Dont invade each other's space whether by slapping, flapping newspaper, tapping or by hand patting, arm rubbing or shoulder squeezing.

You only touch your colleagues if you have their express permission to do so. If you arent comfortable to get their express permission then you shouldnt be comfortable to touch them.

OP report to HR but be prepared for this to come down to a 'she said, he said' situation unless you have evidence (bruising) or witnesses.

GimmeeMoore · 01/02/2017 06:38

You can escalate to a mgr. the facts are
You did hit him first
He hit you back

picklemepopcorn · 01/02/2017 06:42

You don't know him very well. You don't know why he is a rude sarcastic git. You don't know how he felt when you were 'playful' with him, with banter and newspaper flapping. It's like approaching a dog you don't know well, and scratching his ears because he's growling at you.

Next time someone is rude to you, calmly say 'Don't be rude.' Say 'You aren't my manager,' or 'I'm on my break.'

DameDeDoubtance · 01/02/2017 06:48

Bloody, bloody hell Shock

Seriously, what the actual fuck!! Sometimes I forget how much society hate women and how much misogyny is internalised by other women, then bam!

It's assault, tapping someone with a paper does not mean they can assault you. Go to your manager, you have done nothing wrong. I am sorry you were assaulted Flowers

GimmeeMoore · 01/02/2017 06:49

If you report him for hitting you he'll react with counter claim that you hit him
HR will need to look at both accounts
Overall I'd say be more formal to your work colleagues no play hitting

DameDeDoubtance · 01/02/2017 06:50

pickle - he is not a dog, he is a grown man holding down a job. The idea that women should edge round men as if they were wild animals insults both sexes.

wettunwindee · 01/02/2017 06:50

OP - I think you should report it as I think your behaviour and the other guys should be on record. Both with formal warnings. Your 'management' would certainly be under scrutiny. Do you think the way you tolerate him, say "who do you think you're talking to" and hit him with a paper is acceptable? If you have or had a mark more than 10 minutes after this then based on the evidence he'd be on his final warning. If you have any kind of bruising then he'd be gone.

You are far from blameless and in fact created the situation.

@RebelRogue
You can kill a person with a punch

Not to the arm FFS!

@MrsBlennerhassett

"I actually have a friend who slapped her boyfriend after he insulted her and he then threw her to the ground and broke her arm in two places."

She didn't deserve to have her arm broken but he didn't deserve to be slapped. I think sending someone to the ground is a proportionate response: unless he grabbed her from behind ie. she was running away, it seems like reasonable force in self defence. Remember, self defence doesn't mean waiting to be struck (again).

wettunwindee · 01/02/2017 06:52

@DameDeDoubtance

you have done nothing wrong

Do you honestly believe the OP is blameless?

DameDeDoubtance · 01/02/2017 06:53

Breaking someones arm because you were slapped is not a proportionate response! Shock