Trump thread 6

[amispartacus]

And it's only been a day since no 5

I never imagined in any shape or form that I would sit and watch a parliamentary debate where all sides were in some form of accord. Or where the POTUS is aligned with the rhetoric of the Nazis. The he isn't as bad as... Or this/that didn't come up... The normal excuses for abysmal behaviour were not given by those present. Unfortunately I think we will end up with an expensive state visit, that as a country we can't afford in money or in morals. We didn't vote for Trump so why should we have his racist, sexist (he screams it on live TV and social media) and hate speech here. As a nation we have laws against people visiting who provoke hatred to others, to roll out the red carpet with money we can Ill afford sickens me.

Oh, and for those that are not clear on the border issue...

There are quite a few that come across the border. Most come looking for work to support their families or simply a better life. Often they pay someone (called coyotes) that run an illegal business of smuggling them across the border. Often those coyotes get the money from them, then kill them or leave them for dead in the desert. Anyone that can see a street corner filled with illegal Mexican men each morning, waiting for local farmers or businesses to come offer work each morning, knowing it's going to be long backbreaking work all day for a small amount of pay, would be foolish to think they came here for an easy life.

This nonsense idea that the Mexican people are scroungers and don't want to work is simple propaganda. Of course there are some in EVERY country, including America, but the majority are just like us.

Making it difficult for the hard working people that are just trying to support their families or work towards a better life is ridiculous. These people then spend the money they make, which in turn benefits the economy.

The drug runners will find a way in. Anyone that thinks they won't is naive in the extreme. I don't like that part of it, but it's true. Yes, law enforcement will do what it can, but where there's a will and all that.

GOP is trying to get a real healthcare plan in place. Trump is reaching out to Dems to help, who is talking to him???

What do you think Obama did? How much help did GOP give then?
Go and check, then let us know.

Read the local papers in Arizona...Arizona citizens want strong borders...not concerned about the jackalope. .it is a dangerous place for everyone. We probably would agree that people who have been working with the government to become a citizen should be eligible.

No, borders are locks on the door of a country. Simple analogy.

amisparticus , those figures really put the plight of refugees into perspective. I can't imagine a situation where life in a refugee camp in e.g. Chad or DRC is a better alternative than your home country.

it is a dangerous place for everyone

Your President has just made America more dangerous. It's a good thing that people who feel that their country hates them and are inspired to fight it by ISIS can't easily access weapons, is it?

Wait - they can. Your President should do something about lone wolves getting weapons.

those figures really put the plight of refugees into perspective

Millions in camps close to their countries. Millions.

Bloody hell, having trouble keeping up! thanks for new thread

Do you have any realistic notion of how the US border is protected and defended?
How many people are turned away?
How illegal immigrants get in?
How a wall will be no better, if they ever get it up?
What specific improvements will a wall give that the current fence and surveillance system doesn't? Tell us.

GOP is trying to get a real healthcare plan in place.

The GOP have already admitted they do not have a plan. No replacement is anywhere near sorted or even organised. And expensive cover is better than no cover at all. It stinks, I get it. But it will be worse without it for now. Cancelling something without even thinking it through, without preparing a replacement, without organising a logical transition... that's irresponsible. And the people that will get hit the hardest are the ones that are struggling now. But he just started signing EOs anyway without regard for what will happen to those that are already struggling. Does he care? Or the GOP? Of course not - they're all wealthy enough and have their lovely healthcare package already provided for them. It doesn't affect them.

peaceful race relations

So.. building a wall on the Mexico border and a Muslim ban will encourage peaceful relations?

Surely the bloated, shat-out Apricot will be stopped soon, by someone?

Gary Lineker at demonstrations. He's gone up in my estimation

Abby You've been listening to Joe Arpaio too much. There ARE borders.

not concerned about the jackalope Well, you should be. That eco-system is what keeps us alive, in the long run. Mess it up and we humans go out too. Think long and hard about that.

And yes, it was a poor analogy.

Former US ambassador lashes out
www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/hottest-places-in-hell-reserved-for-those-remaining-neutral-former-us-ambassador-unleashes-on-trump-20170130-gu1ss5.html

Australian schoolboy can't go to space camp in US
www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/donald-trump-immigration-ban-melbourne-high-student-in-us-visa-knockback-20170130-gu1rhy.html

Abby

Out of interest, what do you think of Mike Pence?

Abbylee you do realise that a large portion of the world is looking at the US and seeing the 4th Reich rising. The Nazis rose to power during poverty and a depression, they blamed the borders, the foreigners, the Jews for their ills. If we do this everything will be better. This is how it starts, excuses, excuses for why being inhumane to others is ok. It's not ok & you can call us names, say we don't understand the situation or we are committing libel, it's false news as that is comforting, it feels better than the reality. We have our own fight with the alt right here, we don't need anymore hatred, and most of all we are all human. Please stop patronising. You currently have the freedom to support trump and we are free to disdain and revile him for everything he stands for.

I do wonder how much history people know.
Isolationism, othering, putting your country first, creating scapegoats, lying to the press, power grabs, attacking the press...

If ever there were red flags up - and it's only been a week

Lweji I know you didn't ask me, but I'll answer anyway.

Protected by walls, landscape, fencing, armed border guards, vehicles, and more. It is protected. People get through, but it is not easy. Through the desert or via river - often with dubious assistance (very expensive) with "coyotes" that are not reliable and some will quite happily rape or murder their client and keep the money. Many are turned away.

They don't need a wall. They don't need to make changes. It's fine. The numbers have been going down in the last 10 years.(and no I don't have stats, as it's late and I'm too damn lazy to look them up, but I read it about 3 times when we were discussing the Mexico border wall on thread 1 and 2).

GOP is trying to get a real healthcare plan in place.

Same GOP who mangled the ACA would that be? What's their "real" plan look like? I'm guessing it involves privileging pharmaceutical companies & other business interests over the American people. Just a hunch...

Ah yes. The foundation of the U.S. - so many worthy guiding principles, and of course there is that beautiful plaque on the base of the Statue of Liberty, isn't there:

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Obviously there is precedent for turning away desperate refugees from the U.S. - the St Louis Manifest (Stl_Manifest) Twitter account makes for a pretty harrowing read, being, as it is, filled with the fates of the passenger list of that boat who were turned away during WW2.

Trump's ban doesn't involve any of the countries where he has business interests. (Oh yes, HE has business interests, quite how that one's been let go when Jimmy Carter was forced to sell his family's peanut farm I don't know...) It doesn't involve the countries the 9/11 hijackers are from. If anything, it increases the likelihood of radicalisation of Muslims already in the U.S. - as do actions like burning down of the mosque in Texas, an act doubtless spurred by the ban, because the enacting of the ban is perceived as legitimising Islamophobic acts.

I do wonder how much history people know.

Clearly not enough.

But not even of current world events or in the recent past.
Education and information are badly needed.

Mexicans, Muslims, i dont care. I care about lower taxes, unemployment, affordable food and health insurance, peaceful race relations...things that Trump addressed in his campaign

He also told many people that investing in his casinos was a great idea, that you and your friends could make money by selling dodgy vitamin supplements to each other and that he could make you rich if you'd only pay thousands to Trump university.

He also thinks that 5 million people voted fraudulently - but apparently only for Hilary and in states where the Democrats were guaranteed to win.

Adam Khan ‏*@Khanoisseur* 5 Dec 2016
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In 2000, Trump ran racist ads targeting Indian casinos, using a front group created by Roger Stone to hide his role.

Trump was fined $250K.

DS has recently been revising the rise of Nazi Germany for his GCSE history and asking me to test him. The similarities are so obviously chilling. And of course Hitler was democratically elected - at first. And of course his policies were going to make Germany great again.

Adam Khan ‏*@Khanoisseur* 7 Oct 2016
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Let this sink in: Tax dodging Trump thinks SCOTUS tax exemption ruling for Native Americans is unfair! @goddesseldiablo @ThePromisedWLAN

Oh yes - forgot about the business interests. He won't allow scrutiny of his arrangements, but he will attempt to prove that something has been done by covering a table with blank files and photocopier paper because he honestly thinks people are that stupid.