Is the school taking the p!ss?

[nat73]

Long story but the primary school our kids go to is very nice and relaxed but their SATs results this year were dire. For some time we have been thinking that the 'extra curricular' activities outweigh the actual curricular activities. I know kids should be kids etc and we spend lots of time on weekends playing with playdough and in the garden, on bikes etc. So I do expect time at school to be used for 'learning' and better still learning to read and write.

Warm up to Xmas at our primary school included (for the whole school): Xmas concert, Xmas fair, Xmas party, Xmas lunch, trip to the pantomime and all day trip out.

In 2 weeks time there is another whole school trip. Year 6 go on an all week outward bound course (4 nights) during the week and I notice other schools do it over a weekend.

I went into the school before Xmas to express my concerns about the SATs results and that they are nothing learning stuff in enough depth. I was told there is so much to cover that in the time available there is not time to do everything in alot of detail.

Year 6 have 2 after school sessions per week to try to improve the SATs scores. Then I find out this week that for 12 weeks they are having someone from the local community to come in to talk about an aspect of popular culture for 30 mins per week.

Is this a wind up? If there is not enough time to cover the curriculum in detail why are they a) doing so many trips and Xmas stuff and b) spending 6 hours on popular culture. I dont mind this being an after school club or something but why have pupils stay after school to study for SATs and then spend time in the day pratting about?

My husband says I should complain to the governors but I feel like I have come to the end of the road on this. Is this normal? Are all primary schools pratting around this much?

Our primary school is certainly much the same. It chose it because it is the best in the area but nevertheless, there is virtually no learning going on. Multiple dressing up events each term (causing a lot of grief as they always involve parents making stuff), lots of froth and very little "real" subject teaching. It's all junk modelling, art, a bit of this and a bit of that. So many subjects are covered that there is virtually no time for maths. All the time at school is spent on other stuff and the kids are sent home to learn to read. Maths seems to be almost entirely ignored and the teachers appear afraid of it. I witnessed one saying "if you find this really, really difficult, don't worry" and "I hate maths" to the class. What is that supposed to say to a child? Then the staff panic because there are SATs coming up so they send home maths homework that has not been taught in school, in the hopes that someone at home will know what to do with it. The children are stressed, because they have to do so much homework (from Reception onwards) and are already tired from the trivia and froth at school. I am happy to help my DDs but if I have to teach them I would rather do it when they are not tired. I am currently exploring the home school option.

I would speak directly to the Headteacher and, if you don't get the response you want, go directly to the LEA. It is probably not worth going to the Governors as they would have to pass onto the Headteacher anyways. Also, some of the Govs are not teachers and won't necessarily know much about the actual curriculum.

At the beginning of secondary school they will have tests assessing their levels anyway, nobody looks at SATS.
Isn't progress 8 calculated from SATS results?

How on earth do you feel qualified to be so sure about this op?
Would I feel qualified to tell you you aren't doing your job correctly??
Sats are pointless and as others have said suddenly became much harder last year causing untold stress for pupils and schools.
I'm a teacher btw

Nat73 I too would be concerned. I believe school is for learning. I agree that a few trips is fine but at my DC school they spend about 3 days making Halloween things. I think if as a parent you do a lot of activities out of school then it is frustrating but for a child that does not get the opportunity for activities at home then I suppose it is good. For our DC we do Cubs on Monday evening, Music on Tuesdays evening, Multi-sport on Thursdays after school, Stagecoach: dance, drama and singing on Saturday morning, cricket practice on Sunday morning and Friday evenings for match play in spring/summer and rugby on Sunday afternoon. So when DC at school I would prefer they focus on learning and work hard. And we fit in occasional trips to do bowling, ices skating and cinema too, but we have a very active sporty DC who gets bored when nothing to do and I don't allow gaming or more than 45mins per evening on TV and he reads to me every day.

If I had the choice I would send my kids to your school. SATs are a way of checking each child's levels. It means nothing at this age. Worry when you start secondary and in the meantime, enjoy your kids being kids

Not sure I'd be too bothered about it as long as they knew how to read, write and do basic maths

OP if you are not happy with the school / results / methods why did you select it as an option? Did you not know about their teaching regime when you went to look around / spoke to the head and parents, read the ofsted report etc??

Personally I thinks it's rubbish that it doesn't matter as it determines the bands they are put into when they enter secondary school.

Move ur DC's or give them adiditional work at home or pay a tutor if you're worried x

I'm all for enrichment but I'd rather enrich the kids at the same time as teaching them the basics. I get the feeling that people either think school can be 'fun' (messy play, endless school trips etc) or it has to be S Korean style. Is there nothing in between?

But you can teach while students are having fun. My son started school this week (I'm in Australia, so school has just started for the year) and when I asked 'what did you do today?' he said 'we played with Play Doh'. But since I teach at his school, I know that they were actually making letters with the playdoh. Play based learning.

We have an excursion for my grade coming up, and we're already doing work based around it and will continue to do so when we return. So you might think that it's 'just going to see a show', but it's also teaching them about money (buying train tickets), reading a train schedule, understanding how to act at the theatre, and then the associated learning involved (writing, etc).

Not all students have parents who will take them to the theatre and provide all of the extras in life. For some of our students, this will be the first time they've ever gone and seen a live performance. Enriching their lives and exposing them to new things is just as important and reading and writing.

Do your children enjoy going to school? Are they happy there? Do they get excited about school topics/projects? Creating a love of learning at this age is far more important than SAT results.

They start in year 2 here in Wales.

School is a child's work. There is a middle ground between nothing but SATS prep and fooling around all day. How do the teachers get children to work at tables? Wouldn't the children be better off at their own desks with fewer distractions?
In real life, working accurately at speed is valuable. Spelling and grammar needs to be corrected in every instance every day in every piece of work from Reception. It's better for a child to write one good sentence than three sloppy phrases. In Year 3 and onwards, children should have to recopy their misspelled words three times, and rewrite incomplete sentences.
After school is for fun, not reviewing general academic work not taught in the school day for juniors.

Sats results are not important if your child can do well in them!

But if you child is not able to achieve the national expected level, it is a serious cause for concern.

I don't know about the new level system.
But under the old system, if my kids were not capable of achieving Level 4 ie they got Level 3's, I would be seriously worried. Personally for me the national standard Level 4 was such a low bar i was not happy for my kids to be even at that level by end of year 6.

So i started to home tutor my oldest from February of year 6 so she was a solid Level 5 in all of Maths and English and Science by the time of her sats.
I found the SATs past papers were very helpful and challenging and stepped up the levels very well. I will go through as many past papers as required until they i think they fully understand the concepts.

Imo, three or four months of intensive sats drills (say Jan to April) in year 6 can improve academic performance for the long term and still leave plenty of the year to do the fun stuff as well. This assumes the kids aren't too far behind by the time they start year 6, otherwise the higher level material will go over their heads.

YANBU OP. A bit of play yes but playing at the expense of exam prep which then has to be done outside of normal hours at a school which doesn't have a good exam track record, no.

Some parents are obsessed with kids playing. My DC plays and does cultural stuff at the weekends and plays after school and at break time too. They don't need to spend the whole day playing, I send them there to learn, keep pace with the national curriculum and to give them the best preparation to pass the exams which set them up for secondary school. Not everyone thinks SATs are unimportant .

Also laughing at the poster who said she doesn't care about SATS so sends her kids to private school. Those kids are clearly in an extremely privileged position, they're statistically likely to do well no matter what. I find it's often the well off and middle classes who bang on about not caring about SATS and who are obsessed with playing. I think its because deep down they know their kids are set whether it's because they live in a good catchment or can sort their kids out with a good job later on. Meanwhile poorer ambitious families know they have no safety net for their kids so their kids can't afford to spend all day junk modelling, they need to do well come exam time.

But playing and learning are not mutually exclusive. Effective learning does not just happen when sitting quietly in a classroom. Many of the schools with very good SATS results (and with pupils who make a lot of progress during their time at the school) have lots of fun lessons.

Well it's appears that this school doesn't understand how to conduct effective learning through play otherwise they wouldn't have to be holding after school cramming sessions to boost their poor SATS scores.

There is a difference between learning through play and learning exam technique in order to demonstrate what you have learnt within extremely limited parameters, set out in a particular way with an unnaturally small selection of acceptable answers for ease and consistency of marking, within a specific time limit...

We don't have SATS here in Scotland, and my DC have managed just fine without them!

I did live in England for three years with XH and during that time DD1 had to do SATS She was a high achieving child and the teachers put her under so much pressure to do well (School also cancelled playtime) and after lunch it was straight back into class

All that achieved was that DD became so stressed that her psoriasis flared up horrifically and she ended up in hospital for two weeks

Not long after I split with XH and I moved back home to Aberdeen so my DC were never had to face these ridiculous tests ever again

They've managed to make it to adulthood and get good jobs and become lovely, kind, sensible people along the way

SATS have no bearing on anything!

You can withdraw any child from the sats if you do not wish for them to take them. My dd2 was going to be withdrawn as all the staff senco agreed that it was pointless putting her through it as she would get no where near the levels needed. Severe dyslexia, dyspraxia, and a generalised learning difficulty with short term memory issues and Auditory processing disorder. She is now home schooled and her reading has come on very well..think because of the constant 1-1..and less distraction from 20 odd other children.

I don't think you can just withdraw them from SATS. I think under the old regime when you had levels, if the teachers didn't think they were going to achieve a particular level (I think level 2 for Y6 SATS) then they could be withdrawn. But I don't think you can just because you don't want your child to do them.

I don't think the kids learn much after Christmas is year 6,it is just constantly going over stuff they have already done over and over just so the schools get good seats results.It is for the school and does not benefit the kids.Your school sounds good OP.The PGL visits are for a week in yr 6,my dd did do a weekend in yr2though.

What they did to my dd1, I don't want any child of mind doing them. It made her ill, and mentally exhausted. These tests are stupid..why is doing your best never good enough anymore. If my kids have tried their hardest then I'm more than happy whatever the result.