Is the school taking the p!ss?

[nat73]

Long story but the primary school our kids go to is very nice and relaxed but their SATs results this year were dire. For some time we have been thinking that the 'extra curricular' activities outweigh the actual curricular activities. I know kids should be kids etc and we spend lots of time on weekends playing with playdough and in the garden, on bikes etc. So I do expect time at school to be used for 'learning' and better still learning to read and write.

Warm up to Xmas at our primary school included (for the whole school): Xmas concert, Xmas fair, Xmas party, Xmas lunch, trip to the pantomime and all day trip out.

In 2 weeks time there is another whole school trip. Year 6 go on an all week outward bound course (4 nights) during the week and I notice other schools do it over a weekend.

I went into the school before Xmas to express my concerns about the SATs results and that they are nothing learning stuff in enough depth. I was told there is so much to cover that in the time available there is not time to do everything in alot of detail.

Year 6 have 2 after school sessions per week to try to improve the SATs scores. Then I find out this week that for 12 weeks they are having someone from the local community to come in to talk about an aspect of popular culture for 30 mins per week.

Is this a wind up? If there is not enough time to cover the curriculum in detail why are they a) doing so many trips and Xmas stuff and b) spending 6 hours on popular culture. I dont mind this being an after school club or something but why have pupils stay after school to study for SATs and then spend time in the day pratting about?

My husband says I should complain to the governors but I feel like I have come to the end of the road on this. Is this normal? Are all primary schools pratting around this much?

Crap SATS would ring massive alarm bells for me. They are important and a good judgement on how much progress children make over their school careers. Loads of schools used last year (change in curriculum) as a cop out IMO. I am a school govenor and we made damn sure that we were aiming for (and achieving) good SATS scores no matter the change in curriculum.

Also, if your cohort comes from a disadvantaged background, the school would improve their chances no end by concentrating on providing them with excellent reading, writing and maths skills than pissing about taking them to restaurants.

Well you don't do learning by messy play in Y6 anymore.

But I would say that
1- the Christmas school play is important for the children. This is one night that my dcs remember best from their primary year. Stopping that for the year 6 but doing out for the rest of the school would be hugely unfair.
What our primary did was to not do any school play for anyone but they had a special thing organised in June, after all the SATS, that everyone participating in.
2- it's not possible for the children to concentrate all day everyday just in maths and English. They need to do other things. Both for their own learning and as a way to introduce some variety that will help with their learning of maths and English. Children will still do arts and music and french etc... and what you are talking about is very much part of that.

Everyone I know, teachers and parents are bemoaning the fact that schools have to focus on Sats so much there is no time for fun and enrichment. So I'm very surprised if your view of the school is correct.

Re trips, ours do a 5 day residential n year 4 and again in year 6 so not all schools do a weekend. I'd have thought a weekend trip would wipe them out for school the following week anyway

Of course SATs matter they demonstrate children have achieved expected educational goals.

Of course they measure the standard of a school (and not necessary the child) and if they are low that indicates a concern that should be addressed.

I find the comments you report from the school about there just being too much to do quite worrying. Preparation for Y6 SATs needs to start years earlier because children need to be invested in right from the start of school. Good SATs should indicate the cumulative effect of years of effective teaching.

That said, I don't have an issue with the stuff you have mentioned. I think it is possible to have well rounded activities that produce healthy, well balanced children and a good basic standard of education.

@Morphene

You think the majority of MN opinion on this comes from reading peer reviewed literature? Really? I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic.

Its pretty much education 101 that teaching to the test is guaranteed to promote useless non-transferable learning.

True. We have to balance teaching to pass exams and eventually get into University (or the school would be failing its students) with more transferrable learning.

If I could do it without outing myself, I'd point you toward my own published work in favour of the IB over A Levels as this moves away from teaching to the test.

Why the UK education system is now based on teaching to the test escapes me.

It's because the state system in the UK is all about tables. It is easy(ier) to teach children to pass an exam at any level than it is to teach a deeper learning. When the easier option is the most desirable and the one by which most schools will be measured, why the hell would anyone in education attempt a different approach?

I live in Scotland and we don't have SATS so don't know if they are a good thing or a bad thing. Actually, I don't even know what they are!

We have NABS...whatever they are.

You can tell I'm not on my first child and an appalling parent.

My DC school did a similar lot of activities as you mentioned. They still have amazing SATS results. Poor ATS are usually down to poor leadership in schools.

Oh this sounds just like DD's school, all sounds the same, also with unusually awful SATS results last year.
I just assumed it was a low ability year group here.

Christ I haven't a clue what my dc's school sats scores are, or what my own dcs scores are, for that matter, if they've even done them - do they all do them?!

Is it normal to be so hyper aware of a school's internal assessment arrangements?

Op, I see where you are coming from. The school are obviously thinking they should be doing more academic stuff which is why they are putting on the extra after school sessions, but as you say, they are still messing around putting on non necessary things into the school day. They've got this the wrong ah round in my view.
My daughters school got really bad sats results (for the year above her) when she was in year 5 and whilst I agree the results don't matter to much for the child, it does matter if the child hasn't been taught everything and is at a disadvantage to other children in year 7. Thankfully the school has undergone massive changes and is hopefully improving now.

I would say it is extremely normal to be aware of SATs results since these are national standardised tests and not internal assessments. The same way you would be aware of GCSE or A Level results at secondary - you might not have a child doing those exams but you would take an interest as it is an indication how well a school is performing.

There are SATs in years 2 and years 6 (i.e. at the end of each Key Stage).

There is usually a lot in the media when the results are published because they are a reasonable indicator of performance.

Anyone who pretends there is no value and nothing at all to be learnt from looking at SATs performance is either highly ignorant or disingenuous.

I don't like SATs
I don't like teaching to the test
I don't like children failing to reach their potential
I don't like children feeling pressurised
I don't like poor teaching
I don't like foisting unrealistic expectations on children
I don't like writing anyone off

I can think and feel all of those things and still recognise that two schools with similar demographics achieving significantly different SATs results does indicate there is an issue and further investigation and work is required.

From the residential pov, alot of schools encorporate it in to their termly topic. So to miss it would mean that they struggle with the work around it.

12 weeks of this is ridiculous.. a few weeks yes.. but not 12 ... I agree they should be more focused on other things whilst incorporating this music feature.... all things in moderation... 12 weeks is not moderation...

I agree with moving except that the expectation is too high

I would be concerned if the SATS results were poor compared to local and national levels. Whilst i'm not a lover of SATS per se, they are a measurement of how a child is progressing academically. I would be concerned that poor results would affect later academic achievements. A good school will produce reasonable SATS results and still have plenty of time for fun learning opportunities too

^^ This

Have you asked your school why the sats are so bad? You may find the results were skewed by a high number of sen children in that year who didn't take the SATS but are still included in the results. If there's 30 in the class and one who didn't take it, then that's 3% off the results. If there are 5 kids who didn't take the SATS then that skews the results by 15% which is huge. SATS will vary from year to year because of this.

We had the best SATs results in a 75mile radius. We had all the xmas activities although years 5 and 6 do not do a Christmas show. Y6 do their residential over a whole week in March (ie. before the SATs).

I'm not really sure about SATs results, because my DC last school seemed to be working at a much higher standard but got lower SAT scores. I think this school really teach them how to pass the SATs waste a year of their school life. But at least there a lot of trips etc. too.

My kids school do a lot of random things. I love it.

You have to look at how the kids do outside of SATS. If they have like a 20% pass rate on SATS I'd be concerned I admit but anything around the 50%ish average wouldn't bother me, even if it was a bit under, if they were good in other areas.

Do they enjoy school? Are they looked after well? Are they treated as individuals? Is there a good anti bully policy in place and enforced? Are they given chance to shine in areas they excel at? Are they reading and writing to a reasonable level? Do they make good progress? Do you see school books at parents evening? Can you see where they have made progress? Can you see evidence of learning? Do they come home telling you things they learnt at school today? Do they come home asking about things, curious about things and wanting to find out more about things? Do they want to go to school each day?

Apart from the day trip our school does all the things above; Christmas fair, Christmas party, Christmas lunch, nativity play and panto (although the panto comes to us) Despite all these "distractions" the school still got SATS results above the national average. The school also supported my DD so well she got all the way to year 7 before we spotted the signs of autism. She was so well cared for, loved, looked after, supported, comforted and adjusted to that none of us put the picture together. Once we did however the school were amazing in helping me get her the referrals she needs and have been asking me about her. I cannot fault the school in any way. Year 6 all got through SATS without the dramas, tears, breakdowns and panic attacks that I saw in kids from some other schools. I've not heard a parent say a word against how they handled SATs. The schools SATs pass rate is 20% lower than the "ofstead outstanding" school up the road but I wouldn't move any of mine for anything.

Look at the bigger picture before you make your choice.

Do you know the sad thing is that you are missing the value of any learning other than from a text book.
A play can build confidence, team work, taking turns listening skills, reading ( from scrips) and understanding of a story. So much more.

Also last year can be a blip. The tests changed completely and it threw a LOT of schools. Most schools performed worse than they would have usually due to this. I expect this years results to increase slightly as teachers now at least have an example of past test papers to work from rather than fumbling blindly in the dark.

Have not read the thread, so sorry if I'm repeating what pps have said.
The new curriculum means that the results will be down for a while, because the top years have only had a year of teaching, and the desired results depend on knowledge they have missed out on in years 1 to 6. So the results will only start to improve when year 2 at the moment teach year 6.

I couldn't give a gnat's chuff about SAT's . What worries me is the amount of things children appear to have know by the age of 6/7 to enable them to pass the test .
A third of children in my childs class are behind , I thought this was unusual until I spoke to people who worked in other schools and had children in other schools , this would appear to be pretty standard in an area with very few children with English as a second language and an affluent area too .
The curriculum seems to be absolutely jam packed , leaving very little room for consolidation , which is essential to progress in learning . Can anyone explain to me why at the age of six a child needs to understand the various different methods of movement in plate techtonics ?

Erm, what SATs do they do at your school trumpet?!

I don't know about plate techtonics. Certainly, the Y2 and Y6 SATs focus heavily on Maths and English. The English is biased towards SPAG (Spelling and Grammar). The SPAG papers are soul destroying and I can't answer half the questions despite having a first in an essay-based subject from a Russel Group Uni! Our school don't focus much on the Y2 SATs as lower Y2 scores can mean you show more progress by Y6. Separate infant schools will probably have a higher Y2 SAT score as they inflate them to look good.