Is the school taking the p!ss?

[nat73]

Long story but the primary school our kids go to is very nice and relaxed but their SATs results this year were dire. For some time we have been thinking that the 'extra curricular' activities outweigh the actual curricular activities. I know kids should be kids etc and we spend lots of time on weekends playing with playdough and in the garden, on bikes etc. So I do expect time at school to be used for 'learning' and better still learning to read and write.

Warm up to Xmas at our primary school included (for the whole school): Xmas concert, Xmas fair, Xmas party, Xmas lunch, trip to the pantomime and all day trip out.

In 2 weeks time there is another whole school trip. Year 6 go on an all week outward bound course (4 nights) during the week and I notice other schools do it over a weekend.

I went into the school before Xmas to express my concerns about the SATs results and that they are nothing learning stuff in enough depth. I was told there is so much to cover that in the time available there is not time to do everything in alot of detail.

Year 6 have 2 after school sessions per week to try to improve the SATs scores. Then I find out this week that for 12 weeks they are having someone from the local community to come in to talk about an aspect of popular culture for 30 mins per week.

Is this a wind up? If there is not enough time to cover the curriculum in detail why are they a) doing so many trips and Xmas stuff and b) spending 6 hours on popular culture. I dont mind this being an after school club or something but why have pupils stay after school to study for SATs and then spend time in the day pratting about?

My husband says I should complain to the governors but I feel like I have come to the end of the road on this. Is this normal? Are all primary schools pratting around this much?

i'd be pretty miffed at having to do SATS booster sessions out of school.

Your children will look back on the trips and speakers and those will be the memories- not the studying. They're tested on such a narrow curriculum anyway it has no reflection on what a child is truly capable of. Plus, sometimes you just get years where results are lower for that year group.

Sounds pretty normal & kids mental health and happiness will be of more importance to future success than marks on Sats, wouldn't worry:) xx

SATs aren't the be all and end all, but they do indicate approximately what level of learning the children have reached, surely? And if all the kids are getting below average scores at the end of primary school, is it not likely that they have less understanding of the primary level foundations than the kids with better results? So may find the work hard as a result?

Surely they won't just 'know' the necessary information and acquire the skills magically, once they start secondary school (and ours does not do its own assessment before putting the kids into ability based groups, they do it entirely on SAT test results, so they would certainly go into bottom groups with poor SATs).
I know kids need to play and have fun, and I don't think they should be coached and pushed beyond what they can achieve in the school day, but I don't think it's completely unreasonable for the OP to be concerned; kids will be placed at a disadvantage if they don't get the chance to reach the level they're capable of at 11.

So glad tests like this in primary school don't exist in Scotland. They sound horrible. I think this school sounds lovely

ER sorry very worrying! I couldn't give a dam about SATS they are the biggest pile of crap (my son took them last summer) and yes pupils are re-tested at secondary - but what is not great for any child's confidence is starting secondary then having their confidence dashed because they haven't covered all the information and to a good level. Any school worth their salt wants to get good SATS results and while I don't agree with them my son started secondary prepared. The SATS are in May they then had plenty of time to go on their year 6 trip, rehearse for their leavers assembly and play and frankly have a well earned break - they still did school stuff but not as much and less pressure! Our school did not need to do extra sessions after school, but my friends school did. Don't envy you this one can't see the school changing even if you complain...

New curriculum is what is the problem. Too much content and not enough time. Let kids be kids I say and it doesn't sound like a lot to me. Also, we as parents are responsible for our children's education, most of us just choose to delegate it to a school.

Sats mean nothing. My dd1 did them..didn't score too high, we put no pressure on the kids..because the school was already piling on massive pressure about them and all the kids were becoming stressed. I simply told mine to do there best and that is all anyone can ask.
She's now home schooled and does maths and English at college and is achieving far more than she did at school without the pressure of sats and relentless pressure to do better. How my daughter put it was no matter how hard she worked or that she had done her best..it never seemed good enough for the school or the teachers and Im not sure why doing your best has now become not good enough.
She feels she is doing the hard work for herself now and not for anyone else. A very mature 15yo dd1..has clear goals she has set for herself and has expressed a desire to succeed and wants to teach at primary level.

Sounds like a head with their head screwed on (if you pardon the pun), and realising that there's more to being at school than prepping for exams.
And realising that this the last chance those Yr 6s will get to be little kids - Yr 7 is a whole different ball game.
And probably a head who accepts that there is next to no chance of those kids relearning the entire curriculum, nor much point as the SATS don't reflect most of it anyway.

Most residentials I know of are midweek, teachers have families too, their weekends are just as valuable as everyone else's, and they won't be being paid anymore despite having responsibility for kids 24/7 that week.

When comparing the results to other local schools, have you also looked at their extra curricular activities to see if they are similar?

Hi
Lots of experts on here saying secondary schools set by cats. I'm afraid that's not always the case. The two schools I have worked at in the last 5 years set by sats. Yes sats are unreliable and over inflate the children's actual ability, but secondary schools do use them.

A lot of primary children get a massive shock when hitting secondary as we do a lot of tests very often.

Often y7 are set at the start of the year and aren't reset until y8

First year of kids to do new ks2 sats....simply a miserable nightmare. Hot housing and hour a day "revision" every day of Easter. Some of the curriculum announced last minute in the Feb. We were under threat of retake in year 7 now cancelled. You know what I think your school have got it right.

SATS are the work of the devil be grateful your children's school is giving them the opportunities that they are it sounds great.

What most parents don't realise is that SATS results are used by secondary schools in the state sector as the go to reference data for predicting target grades for GCSE. So, they do matter!

Having 'compulsory after school sessions' doesn't make much sense to me. I wouldn't be cancelling any of my child's out of school activities for something like that.

The hype around SATS may be having a strange effect on children's attitudes to exams. There are so many different messages around - they matter, they don't matter, they are testing us not you, you need to do your best... When children finally reach GCSEs, I wonder whether the legacy of SATS has an impact on their attitudes.

What Ohdearducks said... SATS are the work of the devil.

I wish my Year 6 DS was at your child's school. It sounds great. DS has an Asperger's diagnosis. He's very bright but his SATs results won't reflect that because his information processing and sensory issues mean he won't perform well in a timed test. He's so stressed because of the pressure school is putting on his class, my heart is breaking for him. His last year at primary school is going to be miserable.

I tell him every day that SATs don't matter. Nor do GCSEs in the overall scheme of things. Quality of life matters more.

My son did SATS his secondary school totally disregarded the results and streamed the children with their own assessment called CATS. SATS had no benefit for him at all, he was taught to test, stressed out and pressured for no personal gain. Absolute bullshit.

I would be more interested in their Ofsted report. Even an old one will tell you a great deal about the actual teaching at a school. Also consider; how often do they learn a foreign language or music and who teaches those subjects, do they change classes for maths and/or literacy or is it taught as a form class rather than by ability. A great school will have a teacher who takes able pupils for maths for example. How do they teach SPAG; a huge amount of the new exams is taken up with that. I appreciate you may be in an area where another school is not an option and whilst SATS are more about testing the school, you do need to ensure your school is meeting your child's educational needs.

I would be over the moon if my kids school were encouraging so many interesting and varied activities. I would rather see well-rounded and happy kids than little zombies who are pushed to tick boxes with little interest in their well being. (not directed at you OP< just after seeing some schools around here)

Mambo, totally agree with your comments.

as the go to reference data for predicting target grades for GCSE

I don't really understand the point of that
No sarcasm, I really don't understand why the predictions, and why target grades. Aren't the targets to achieve the highest possible scores?

Just my 2ps worth, my daughters low scores on her literacy & numeracy scores (Welsh tests) triggered a need for an IEP .....

I have lovely memories of going to a small primary school in a large, historic city. We visited the museum, we did brass-rubbings, we had swimming and skiing lessons, trips to the zoo and numerous other outings. Strangely, I remember the outings better than I remember the hours spent working on literacy and numeracy. I don't remember anyone struggling to learn the basics, and many of us were above average in both when we headed to secondary school.

My dd2 had an iep long before sats..if they are any sort of teacher that should be spotted before testing..if a child is truly struggling they should already know this.

Everyone's stats results went down last year unless they taught to the tests. I teach year 2 and it is a balancing act trying to get these ridiculous standards in whilst keeping time for fun and play. I want happy engaged children not sad bored children who are counting down the days till the results are in and school can truly educate again.

No sarcasm, I really don't understand why the predictions, and why target grades. Aren't the targets to achieve the highest possible scores?

I don't like the idea of individual targets much either (separate from 'predicted'grade, which is based on results so far). Targets seem now to be set quite low and a cynic might say that this so that the school can say '80% of our pupils achieved their targets!'....
My DC had a predicted grade of B, and target of C, for an A level subject (first term). When I asked why, the teacher just said they're automatically calculated, but I find it a very depressing message - on your grades you are averaging B, but for reasons we can't explain we think you'll struggle and ultimately get a C. Luckily my DD ignores them (I need to learn from her example...).

I think it is fabulous that the school are giving the children rich experiences and links to their community rather than cramming them full of SPAG, maths etc. Many schools do booster groups on top of booster groups - how boring. I would relish working at a school that put the children first like this. SATs are ridiculous hoop jumping exercise.