To have kids before marriage?

[PandaEyes25]

I'm desperate to start TTC with my Partner of 7 years. Everything is pretty much spot on regarding timing as I am in a good job which will allow me to work flexibly, we have a good amount of savings and live in a nice area in our own house with a couple of spare bedrooms.

The only thing is, we are not married.
It's not the my OH doesn't believe in marriage. He says that we will get married at some point but I'm not sure if I want to bring a baby into the mix without having the stability marriage provides.

I'm just curious to see if other people agree with me that getting married first is definitely the right thing to do or if I'm just getting a bit hung up over it and that it's not worth putting off having children for.

You are genuinely shocked that a group of women would chose to protect themselves financially before having the very important child and reducing their own working hours (pension contributions etc)

No, I made the point that you can put the legal & financial protection in place separately without getting married, which is what I did.

Whether or not the OP marries her partner is not going to have an impact on whether their relationship lasts which seems to be implied by some of the posts on here. And has anyone mentioned how expensive it is to get a divorce?

Of course, I hope the OP and her partner have lots of dc (if that's what they both want) and live happily ever after with one another - regardless of whether or not they choose to tie the knot!

When I have kids, I'd really like to give up work and be a fulltime mum but we wouldn't be able to live off my OH's wage alone as the mortgage is nearly two thirds of one wage. It is possible for me to work from home and I would probable cut my hours down and work flexibly around the baby. (I'm in accounts so could do the invoicing/payment chasing when the baby's napping etc) It isn't possible for my OH to work from home so I would be the main care giver.
My wage would be reduced by maybe half.

In regards to the marriage, I would love a wedding with the church and white dress but I'm not bothered about it. I'd quite happily go to the registry office and then take our nearest and dearest out for a nice meal.
To be honest, the marriage is all that's important to me. The wedding would just be a bonus and definitely not something I'd spend £10k+ on.
My OH just thinks that he'd be conning me out of something I've dreamed of by skimping and saving money. Deep down though, would I be disappointed if I didn't have the medium sized white wedding? Maybe! But being able to afford to give my baby the best start in life trumps that!

I think the view of not having children before you are married is very old fashioned. What difference does it make particularly now most women continue to work and in many cases are the higher earner. It's a very simple process to ensure the legal protections are in place.

From what I have seen a lot of people never get around to putting in the legal protections.

Plus I never though I would end up up a SAHP - wan't on my radar pre pg - that was a combination of life throwing stuff at us - contract not being renewed then a move while pg for DH work - a change in prioritises during pg and a clingy baby and a location with shortage of reasonably priced childcare. Even my friends who went back to work at 6 months, had family nearby to help still found career impacts years later.

When I have kids, I'd really like to give up work and be a fulltime mum but we wouldn't be able to live off my OH's wage alone as the mortgage is nearly two thirds of one wage. It is possible for me to work from home and I would probable cut my hours down and work flexibly around the baby. (I'm in accounts so could do the invoicing/payment chasing when the baby's napping etc) It isn't possible for my OH to work from home so I would be the main care giver .My wage would be reduced by maybe half.

Get married, or have a long chat with a solicitor, before having DC. Otherwise, you're leaving yourself foolishly vulnerable

I had my twins unmarried, but financially I was much better off than their father.

DH wouldn't have children without being married - it's not just about divroce, he was widowed incredibly young and seen first hand the benefit to being married. Down to small things like bereavement payment and widowed parents allowance that allowed him to change his hours to facilitate caring for DS solo whilst he dealt with the loss of his mother.

It isn't possible for my OH to work from home so I would be the main care giver.My wage would be reduced by maybe half.

I would think very carefully about not getting married pre children then.

Been with my other half nearly 30 years. dated for about a year, rented together for a year, bought house together, decided to have kids about 4 years in, 2 kids, another house or 2 and eventually got married about 6 years ago.

We were quite happy as we were but wanted the legal protection as we were getting older.

Nothing wrong with doing kids first but do have a good discussion about shared finances, etc especially if one of you is going to reduce work hours or stay at home.

You might not want to tell us OP, but are you a lower earner than your DP? If you are then marriage before children is a good idea to give you financial protection. If you earn more than him then it doesn't matter so much.

How would your DP react if you said you want a small registry office wedding so that the legal protection is in place before you have DC? Keeping your savings for maternity leave is much more sensible than having a huge, expensive wedding.

Statistically (anecdata not being actual data), couples who are married before having children are more likely to stay together ,and if he is not committed enough to get married to you, then he is not committed enough to have children with you.

A wedding can be done for less than £500 - pretty dress from ebay, registry office, lovely lunch out for nearest and dearest, then private function room in a pub with a DJ if you want to spend another couple of hundred. If your "good amount of savings" covers this, then there is no practical reason to wait. Why will waiting three years magically make it okay to blaze through 20k worth of savings on a Big Day? Especially if you saving capacity has taken a hit after a baby/maternity leave etc.

Personally, I would not have dreamed of having children before getting married. It's not old-fashioned, it's common sense.

panda I know it isn't what you asked but in the kindest possible way can I suggest you rethink this...

I'm in accounts so could do the invoicing/payment chasing when the baby's napping etc

Unless you work for yourself then your employer will not let you use working from home as childcare. Also my baby has only ever napped for 30 minutes at a time. I had a lot of ideas about what I would do whilst baby napped. Now I'm just grateful to have a cup of tea and fiddle on mn

It's a very simple process to ensure the legal protections are in place.

You're right - it is. By getting married.

It is down the line where the OH leaves you to have 'sex with lots of other women', 'for the American he has met online and only once in the flesh', the 'other woman from work who he has been having an affair with, not to mention all the other women he has had affairs with and no one told you' 'or the younger available model because he doesn't fancy staying with you any more because you have Parkinsons' , all of which I have seen lately.

Twenty years down the line, more children, career put on the back burner, small or no pension. All those little sacrifices made for the benefit of the children, whilst his career has blossomed because that was the best thing and more convenient for the family. Even with divorce settlements, this is an expensive mess to sort out. But for those I have known there is enough to set up and start again. Although nothing can help with the emotional cost of losing the secure partnership you thought you had.

Not married - then there is half the house (if that is what you had when you bought it and you haven't remortgaged so hopefully some equity) and child support until they stop school.

I think someone's willingness or not to get married give you a fairly good indication of how they see the relationship. If neither of you is bothered it doesn't arise, but in your case where you've been together seven years and you are talking of starting a family I would be questioning his reluctance. Getting married need not involve a huge a wedding and can be done very cheaply indeed - it's a much easier way of linking your lives together than making separate legal arrangements to try and replicate the security of marriage without actually getting married. I think you are right to question whether you want to bring a baby into the mix without the stability you feel marriage would provide. As others have said, having a baby is a massive commitment - one which will bind you together forever through that child - I'd be questioning whether I wanted to make such a huge commitment with someone who didn't want to marry me. Of course everyone is individual and all relationships are different, no doubt there will be lots of people who will tell you it doesn't matter and it was fine for them, but they are not you and they don't know anything about your relationship, if you have niggling doubts I would heed them.

It might be expensive to get a divorce, but it might be an even bigger hit to be left by an unmarried partner, whose pension you no longer share, when you can't get even even short term transitional maintenance to tide you over whilst you restart a career, when you have to sell up your home because you cannot afford to pay the mortgage solo etc.

Or when you have to pay 40% tax on his share of a house (in the SE, this could be a lot) because no IHT relief) because he died.

Now, depending on your circumstances (and especially if you're the higher earner and will not be a SAHM) those factors might not be important.

But all too often, they are.

Find out whether you will be making yourself financially dependent (and therefore vulnerable) and look at the long as well as the short term. Consider the scenarios of death, incapacitation (you, him, DC) and separation. Decide what level of security you want/need and what aspects you'll risk. And then act accordingly.

Do not sleepwalk into becoming dependent on someone. Make an active choice now.

Everyone thinks that the person they love and want to have Dc with is going to treat them fairly. But that's not a thought you can rely on for your future.

Panda, I missed your reply!

You won't miss out by having a smaller wedding because you can make it a happy day which is special to both of you. If you want to be a SAHM or earn significantly less getting married is the best way for you to be protected.

Sorry, but when a guy doesn't want marriage and keeps putting it off, it looks worrying like a lack of commitment. As others have said, you could leave yourself and your child dangerously vulnerable.

Also, this:
I cringe every time I read on the Relationships board about a woman who is living with a man, has had his children, she's given up work so he can do whatever he wants at work, then the children are in their teens and he's misbehaving/having an affair etc and she is SO vulnerable.

I think you need to put your foot down and insist on a registry office marriage. You don't even have to tell your friends and family (other than the witnesses, of course). You can do the proper "wedding" a few years down the line---or not at all, if you decide not to.

Eurus you're dead right, I should have been clearer. You can get the same legal protections when it comes to splitting up that marriage offers. Death and inheritance is another story.

Mmm, that's also not true though!

No, I made the point that you can put the legal & financial protection in place separately without getting married, which is what I did.

No you can't, which has been explained. So the issue is simply whether a couple want the ones you can only get through marriage or not.

OP, you need to choose either SAHPing or staying unmarried. Unless you've money, don't do both. Nothing wrong in not being married but it's going to impact on the other choices you make.

Yep we have a child and aren't married. It's something we will probably do one day but only because if inheritance tax. I'm secure in our relationship and in the family we have created.
Protection wise we are beneficiaries on each other's life insurance and pension and we share savings so if one walked away everything would be split etc etc

Don't rely on a baby napping so that you can work! Some babies don't sleep very much during the day. You will need childcare when you work even if it is a few hours a day. Could you work during the weekend when your DP is at home?

Churches can do cheap weddings too - you can have the ceremony without the bells and whistles and choirboys, and the reception in the hall with caterers (some churches can even do a buffet )

Another one who wouldn't dream of not being married when I had children.

I think people think marriage is a nice party and a piece of paper. In terms of your relationship it probably is but in terms of legal processes and how you are viewed in the eyes of all kinds of institutions it is absolutely not.

I'm for marriage from a security perspective, it is a legal contract for a reason. Ignoring the relationship breaking down, you're far more screwed if one of you dies.

On just one example, without bring married and even with a will, you have to pay inheritance tax on his 50% of the house, leaving you with a massive bill to live in your own home.

You won't be outright entitled to any of his assets, the money is his bank account, his car, etc. And if you're a SAHM, chances are you won't have these in your name alone. And again, if they're left to you in the will, you have to pay inheritance tax.

Some of my dear relatives have had to contemplate this very recently. They have been together 15 years, 2x DC under 10, never married and it worked out fine. Until one of them had a major health scare. They are now rushing to get married after a solicitor made them aware of how much it will cost in the worst case scenario.

Now, the happy day with have a more sombre tone. Fortunately things are looking a bit better for my relative so hopefully everyone will look back at the big day with much happier memories :)

My DS napped a lot between 9 and 10 months. I used to do cross-stitch. The rest of the time he didn't (including night) until he was 19

Employers also don't tend to be uber keen on you looking after a baby while you work, OP. Different if you work for yourself, but most wouldn't even allow it as a regular thing.

I wfh sometimes and while I can do bits of admin things around naps etc, and it's particularly doable if yours nap regularly, you're going to need someone else looking after your child while you get the substantive stuff done. I would budget for some childcare unless you're going to be able to rely on family or do opposite shifts. Not what you asked about initially I know, but info you will need I think.

Children are the bigger commitment. I wouldn't have them with someone who didn't want to make the smaller commitment to me first.

In the situation you describe, OP, in which you hope to reduce your working hours and leave him as the bigger earner/bigger pension contributor etc., you would be leaving yourself very vulnerable.

I trust my DH completely but I also know that stuff happens in life and for every woman on the relationship board who should have easily spotted the signs that her dh was a shit, there is another woman who genuinely had no cause but to trust him completely - and then wham, something goes wrong.

Get married, wear a nice dress, have a lovely affordable meal with family and a few friends, take photos, it could cost you no more than a big xmas party.