To think it's common sense to let a w/c user have the w/c spot

[SparkyStar84]

I've just seen the ruling on disabled people getting priority in disabled spots on buses. Isn't that common sense. What kind of person would deny a w/c user the space because 'pushchair'?
I'm a w/c user it makes it easier in a way to get about with children, though I know some w/c users still have a buggy.
This is about the parents who refuse to move, when asked, by someone who might have an appt or something important to get too. Not saying the parent doesn't. But isn't that the point of foldable buggies over great big travel systems?
It just bugs me that people have had to leave the bus because a parent wouldn't move. As a parent with kids of many ages, also remembering times gone by, the purpose of easy foldable buggies is that you can decamp when on the bus.
Do you think it's an issue that buses need to provide buggy spaces too?

I'm with all the posters on here who have pointed out that day to day existence is hard enough for wheelchair users without added stress. Perhaps those who are whinging about the minor inconvenience of folding a buggy or getting off and waiting for the next bus would like to experience a day in the life of a wheelchair user? A typical day for the wheelchair user I have in mind consists of needing assistance to wash, dress, cook, take a piss, eventually leaving the house to find you are unable to cross the road due to cars parked across dropped kerbs, not being able to access shops/restaurants/pubs/beaches/the countryside, then there are the pressure sores and cellulitis from being stationary all the time, etc etc. And now people expect them to just wait for the next bus if there is a buggy in their designated space? As if everyday life isn't challenging enough already.

Servicesupportforall suspect they are terrified and horrified but not sure why we are comparing the two, there's lots of words and phrases we use in every day life that can be applied somewhere worse.
I have a disability that would mean that situation would be scary for me, the interaction, the noise of the baby if it cried, an I holding them right etc no not compared to women in Syria but it would be rididuclous to preface every scared emotion with "not as bad as in Syria" but shit scary for me in my life in the comfort of the uk yes, hence using them words as they are accurate for me.

I saw this video on itv news at 6.30pm. The behaviour of the woman in the cream coat is appalling.

www.itv.com/news/2017-01-18/partial-supreme-court-victory-for-disabled-over-bus-spaces/

Just out of curiosity, I have a daughter who is still in a pram she is 18months old. She has health conditions and could need a pram til the age of five etc at the moment she is also tube fed and can't be handled by strangers, would I have to move her if a wheelchair came on? I've never had to I've least been lucky enough to move over and make enough room, but if I couldn't would I need to move?

This thread makes me so sad. I can't believe that in 2017, someone is ignorant enough to believe that their child in a buggy has as much right to the accessible space on public transport as someone in a wheelchair.

It's a Wheelchair Accessible space. Not a buggy-accessible one, a wheelchair accessible one. Yes a buggy will fit into it but just because it fits doesn't mean it has a right to be there (my cat can understand that so I'm not sure why posters on this thread can't).

It's the same as a disabled parking bay. It's there to facilitate life for people who need it to have the same access as those who can walk a bit further. I'd be interested to hear if Trifle would park in a disabled parking space if the parent and child ones were full, or whether she would use the accessible toilets if the queue for the ladies was a bit too long.

It was campaigned for by people who felt that wheelchair users should have the same ability to use public transport as everyone else. Not by mothers who are just lucky enough to take advantage of it if it happens to be empty.

I would wholeheartedly support a national ban on prams on buses and buggies only to be allowed if folded. You choose to have a baby, you work out how you're going to get around and about with it. That might mean slings, lightweight buggies, money for taxis, walking everywhere, learning to drive, asking for help to fold, or deciding that you will get off the bus if a wheelchair user needs the space. As far as I am aware nobody chooses to spend their life tied to a wheelchair.

And we've gone back to let's ban prams, sigh.

I think that fines for not moving are more sensible.

Not everyone lives within walking distance to shops/ other facilities, certainly not everyone can afford taxis all the time or can afford/ is able to drive a car. And saying well you chose to have a child won't change the fact that very child might be horribly impacted.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't vacate the wheelchair spot or that bus drivers shouldn't have to kick you off. Heck, it should be that repeat offenders are banned from getting on the bus.

But let's not make it a race to the bottom as ultimately that will just lead to othering.

Exactly Cheshire, and TBH, on these threads I suspect half the posters couldn't give two shits about disabled rights but use it as a virtuous cover just to give other mothers a damn good kicking.

And IMO mothers that refuse to move are coming from exactly the same place of nasty selfishness as those who would get a kick out of seeing prams banned from buses because they'd get a lovely little thrill from looking at the empty wheelchair space while knowing they'd forced a load of other women to struggle or be forced off public transport altogether. They're both groups of nasty little people who get a kick out of the power of being able to inconvenience and exclude someone else.

Exactly Cheshire, and TBH, on these threads I suspect half the posters couldn't give two shits about disabled rights but use it as a virtuous cover just to give other mothers a damn good kicking.

And IMO mothers that refuse to move are coming from exactly the same place of nasty selfishness as those who would get a kick out of seeing prams banned from buses because they'd get a lovely little thrill from looking at the empty wheelchair space while knowing they'd forced a load of other women to struggle or be forced off public transport altogether. They're both groups of nasty little people who get a kick out of the power of being able to inconvenience and exclude someone else.

I don't want to see prams banned from buses, I just want to see parents exercise some common sense.

Almost everyone on this board who had a baby before about 2000 has travelled on a bus that didn't have space for unfolded prams. No one says it was easy, but it was a fact of life, and you either managed or found another form of transport.

Almost every wheelchair user/carer for a wheelchair user on this board could not use the bus at all before wheelchair spaces were introduced. In my area there are 5 towns that it is possible to get to by bus from my town. Four of those towns have hospitals where I sometimes have appointments. Two of those routes run wheelchair accessible buses. Two don't, which means I can't go there by bus. This means if I have an appointment in either of those towns, my husband has to take a day off work to drive me.

If I was able bodied and had a folding pram I would be able to get to any of these places. Can you see the inequality here?

Parenthood is NOT a protected class. Disability is.

I think it's a MN phenomenon this utter rage generated by buggies in wheelchair places threads. Is this even discussed anywhere else on the web?!

On sites for people with disabilities yes, on parenting sites, not so much. Which should tell you something.

Its been discussed on another forum I use. Why wouldn't it be? It's news.
Its on a par with parent child parking spaces which is often discussed elsewhere.

BillSykes, how many posts on here are calling for prams to be banned? People are simply supporting the proposition that wheelchair users should have priority for wheelchair spaces. What is so nasty about that?

I think a lot of aggravation could just be avoided if when a person goes on the bus with a buggy they are given a warning before paying/tapping that they may be required to fold and if they aren't willing to they either accept they get off the bus if needed or don't use it at all. Some drivers on busier routes round my way have been doing that for a while anyway.

Prams/pushchairs will only be banned if people refuse to move. So it will be those people that are to blame, not those fighting for the rights of people with disabilities.

Let's not forget without those with disabilities fighting, unfolded pushchairs and prams wouldn't be on the bus in the first place!

Wheelchair spaces are there for people with wheelchairs - that seems clear. The law says that businesses have to make their goods and services accessible to people with disabilities.

But I don't understand the amount of vitriol displayed here towards women with babies in prams or buggies. It is really hard trying to get a baby, a pram/pushchair and shopping onto a bus, especially if you have another child too. It seems harsh to say that once a woman (or indeed a man - apparently men can be parents too) has lugged all that stuff onto a bus, they then have to lug it all off again because someone else needs the space.

It would be nice to see the return of conductors who could help the parent fold up the buggy or hold the shopping for them. Or perhaps there could be a buggy space as well, even if it meant some able-bodied people had to stand. It's a tricky problem but hopefully not an insoluble one. I don't think that hurling abuse at people and calling them selfish or entitled is going to help matters one iota.

The only way that this is about having a go at new mothers is if you assume that every new mother is a selfish tossed who puts her needs before the rights of people with disabilities.
I don't believe that at all. I think being a new mother is a really challenging time and in real life most women navigate it without feeling the need to be utterly precious and selfish.
It's the wankers that are the problem, not new mothers and pretending it's new mother bashing is just deflecting.
Pointing out that millions of us managed isn't bashing. It's trying to respond to the irritatingly whiny 'oh but how can I possibly manage a buggy, a bag if shopping and a baby....'
It's entirely possible if you don't have your head up your arse.
Of course there will always be circumstances where a new mother has illness, or life circumstance that mean she needs extra help but that's not the issue here. It's the basic principle. Having a baby does not place you on the same level of need as a disabled person and you have to lack both common sense and compassion to imagine that it does.

If new parents campaigned for what they needed then fine - instead they whine that those pesky wheelchair users are inconveniencing them.

Do you think these threads get out of hand with disablism because sensible people keep replying to entitled people who will not change their mind anyway?

When my DCs kept on with 'but muuum...' I ignored them.

All the sensible points have been made, no one coming on here arguing their case is saying anything new or changing their mind, it just gives people more chances to spout disablist opinions.

Livia we should travel together so I can catch all the babies shoved toward you! I did and insist (including a lesson) when a young SW wouldn't hold the baby he was about to be solely responsible for on a half hour car journey.

And it's not parent bashing - whining selfish tossers are still whining selfish tossers even when they are parents. Most parents just get on with it without expecting the world to stop.

pickle Now that is bad

Love the idea of someone waiting to catch any baby shoved in my direction

I volunteer for baby holding duties .
The sad fact is, people probably used to be more supportive and helpful towards parents (well mothers). I used public transport numerous times (buses, trains, London underground) with babies and young children and was always offered help from random strangers, and now offer help in return. It was just what people used to do.
What seems to have turned the tide is the fact that a small number of parents do seem to believe they are a protected class and entitled to special treatment. Placing your needs equal to or even above a disabled person is being entitled.That is what sticks in peoples minds, rather than the majority of parents who just get on with it.

We don't need conductors, we just need parents travelling with small children to think.
If you are regularly travelling on buses with a buggy make sure you buy one that folds easily and stands up when folded without support. The sacred newborn can be carried in a sling. If you need to get on a bus with a week worth of shopping, why not just order the heavy items online monthly, the delivery would be cheaper than a bus fare.

Most of all just don't behave like a dick, the space on buses is for wheelchair users, not people who buy massive prams and think the world revolves around them.

There isn't a vitriol against women with children in buggies, the vitriol is for the people how are stupid enough to think that they trump everyone else when they won't let a wheelchair user in the space for wheelchairs. Why we need the cost of conductors to get this simple point across is beyond me.

Yes Chipped!

I have a 1y/o and a 3 w/o and if I go on the bus with my pram I'm vigilant about looking at who is getting on and off so that if the space is needed for whom it is intended, I can make a quick exit off the bus. I never travel far anyway so walking the rest of the journey is nae bother.

Ah. I've been pondering what on earth SW stood for, if not scriptwriter (and had just decided on Selfish Wanker).

I'm guessing it's social worker.