To think it's common sense to let a w/c user have the w/c spot

[SparkyStar84]

I've just seen the ruling on disabled people getting priority in disabled spots on buses. Isn't that common sense. What kind of person would deny a w/c user the space because 'pushchair'?
I'm a w/c user it makes it easier in a way to get about with children, though I know some w/c users still have a buggy.
This is about the parents who refuse to move, when asked, by someone who might have an appt or something important to get too. Not saying the parent doesn't. But isn't that the point of foldable buggies over great big travel systems?
It just bugs me that people have had to leave the bus because a parent wouldn't move. As a parent with kids of many ages, also remembering times gone by, the purpose of easy foldable buggies is that you can decamp when on the bus.
Do you think it's an issue that buses need to provide buggy spaces too?

Could our buses be better designed for this purpose?
Yes they could, however this is likely to require the kind of lobbying the disabled groups spent years on to get wheelchair accessible spaces in the first place. The vast majority of bus stock in this country is not set up for buggies at all.

I have epilespy and it would have been unsafe for me to travel with a baby on my knee so I always kept him in the pram
However-
If someone in a wheelchair had tried to get on I would have got off even though I could have argued my point.
Interestedly I work with people with all kinds of disabilities and we had a big discussion around this.
At this discussion we had eight wheelchair users, 10 others with other types of disability and 5 none disabled people.
1 wheechair user said prams should be banned from buses full stop
7 out of the eight wheelchair users said they would not expect a mum with a pram to get off the bus, they were of the option that equality works both ways and you can't just have the good things you need to take the bad as well.

5 out of the eight wheelchair users said they would not even ask a parent to fold the pram in case the mother or the baby had a hidden disability
The other disabled people it was about a half and half split
The none disabled people it was unanimous that the mum with the pram should get off or fold every time.
Now before I get flamed I would again like to add I would have always got off the bus if I had been the mum with a pram and still would but it was very interesting to hear the opinions of this group.

*sparechange. That's the system they need to set up. Around here you don't get "tickets", the only way to travel on a bus is by using a prepaid Oyster card or a contactless bank card; buses don't take cash

It's already well set up!
If you have to get off the bus early, the driver gives you a paper ticket. You give that to the next bus driver and they let you on.
It happens all the time when a bus has to terminate early.
Slightly surprised you've never seen it*

I actually spoke to my friends DH about it, he drives a bus. They have no way of refunding OR of handing out tickets. If a bus breaks down you gave to contact the garage with details and they get TfL to refund you.

How ridiculous January. Frankly I can see some huge similarities between this and cyber bullying teen conversations.

Your attempts to shut up any bullying claims by making such suggestions is equally shameful.

If Trifle was a teenage girl,your daughter would you be happy with this kind of thread because I wouldn't.

And as the other poster says it really does solve zilch.

Ive been on the bus when people have been given tickets to carry on jounrey. In fact with the New Cap they seem to be doing it more to try and prehaps remove some people from the cap to make more money.

Kahli and Raggydoll3- thank you for bringing the discussion back to what it should be.
I know when horrible things happen to a travelling disabled person it makes them, their carers and families upset. We can't hang on to that and take it out on the first person that expresses an opinion that may create a situation like that again. Gentle explanation and understanding will do more.
Stillrabbit- thank you for showing changes that still need to be made by bus companies to handle these situations.

still perhaps its company/machine/training specific but I saw paper tickets being issued this week on a broken down London bus (I didn't need one, I was only a stop away from where I wanted to get off anyway). It is true they cannot refund though, TfL would have to refund centrally.

Although the language used on here (babies 'flying' and 'distressed' - really??) is the usual exaggeration!

If Trifle was a teenage girl,your daughter would you be happy with this kind of thread because I wouldn't.

But she isn't. So it's irrelevant.

In 2011 my dd wrote the following on here: This is Dawndonna's dd1.
I'm fifteen. I use a wheelchair. Today I wanted to go to the city with my friends. Mum had an operation yesterday so can't drive me. My twin sister thought she could get me on the bus. I have come home. It's dry, but a bit windy and I started to get a bit too cold. The first two buses had buggies on and both of them were 'well, she's a kid just going to hang about in the city whilst we need to shop for our babies'. The third one didn't have a ramp. Yes, I could have waited for another but I get hypothermia. It's half eleven now and I'm only just warming up. My twin is typing this for me.
Do you know, Mum has been rattling on about this crap on Mumsnet for days, to be honest, I wish most of you would piss off and shut up. Mum feels she needs to defend me and somedays she does, today, she wouldn't have put up with the bus stuff, but I'm fifteen, and whilst I'm incredibly articulate, I find it difficult to have to state my case in front of thirty odd adult strangers on a bus. Why should I? Well, for all those reasons stated by the so called pompous gits on here, I get hypothermia, there is only one space, it's none of your business to question my motives for getting the bus. It's actually none of your business to open negotiations as to who should or should not stay on the bus.
Unlike Mum, I shan't be coming back to check on this. I am made aware on a daily basis that there are many, many rude and selfish adults out there, I don't need it in my home too, because that's what the internet does, it brings this sort of bullying into my home.
It still stands. She is at university now and getting firsts. She takes a taxi each day because she can't guarantee she can access the bus due to people with buggies etc. Which bit of fair is that about?

If Trifle was a teenage girl,your daughter would you be happy with this kind of thread because I wouldn't

You're right. I'd be absolutely fucking mortified that I had managed to raise someone so completely and utterly self centered and ignorant.

Sad but a great post Dawn

Most parents have a large buggy these days. As they form a large part of the customer base, buses should try to make room for them. They are the customer, they have paid for their ticket, they should t just have to 'suck up' having an uncomfortable and stressful journey. Why can't EVERYONE be catered for?

Most bus companies do not charge or small children, maybe they should start charging for buggies. SN buggies and multiple births could be covered with some sort of exemption card, everyone else folds or pays, and the amount paid should be quite a lot.

Rubbish Ginger bullying is bullying and ime often very similar whatever the age. Last I heard it is viewed as unacceptable in any arena and age certainly makes no difference.

As an aside I hope they make it mandatory for drivers to absolutely not be moving whilst buggies are being folded or until mother and baby/ child are seated. Ime this doesn't always happen.

If you think there is bullying Green then report it. But I have a feeling you will be disapointed.

Defending a bigot makes you just as bad as them. HTH.

Green to be fair, I would have to agree with the following anyway....

If Trifle was a teenage girl,your daughter would you be happy with this kind of thread because I wouldn't

You're right. I'd be absolutely fucking mortified that I had managed to raise someone so completely and utterly self centered and ignorant.

Go user 1484767.....!!

Livia- Flying was not an exaggeration. It is Newton's first law of physics. An object will keep doing what it is doing until another force acts on it. If a bus breaks or crashes, a baby's head and body will continue travelling at the speed the bus was travelling at until another force acts on it (It hits something, such as the seat in front). That is why we have to have car seats in cars. Children fly at 60 or 70 miles an hour through a windscreen. When we try to be reasonable, both sides have their reasons. Bus travel with young babies is not as safe as it could or should be. Travel for disabled people is also crap.

I use buses a lot and have never seen a baby 'flying'. I understand that theoretically they could end up through the windscreen but I don't believe you have witnessed this happening too many times.

Totally agree with this. And if that means that there is a choice between making a bus journey bloody difficult for one person or impossible for another, then equal accessibility means that the person for whom it would be impossible has priority, wouldn't you agree? Else, how is it equal accessibility?

Fucking hell have you missed all the equality and diversity training at your school?
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I have seen them fly at the seat in front! It causes injury. Why do you doubt this happens? How can you not have seen how often bus drivers break hard?
I've already told you that I have witnessed disabled family being abused on public transport and you haven't doubted that! Do you only want to believe what fits in with your opinion? Will that help make things better for everyone? Looking at the whole situation and how to improve it for everyone has to be a positive.

They're lower than a window in a pushchair,not so in arms or on lap.

To be frank I think young children not even in pushchairs are not that safe on buses and school buses are a whole other worrying issue.

"Hag" "Thundercunt" is just the tip of it. Most places of work I know take a dim view of bullying,being able to see it and stand up to it is expected. No topic of discussion would excuse it. Hounding people and ripping them to shreds in a pack under the guise of them doing wrong is bullying

And yet implying that the posters who are defending the rights of disabled people are a pack? Dogs are the only animals who hunt in packs, so your implication is offensive, as is your defence of people who are determined to minimise and dismiss the prejudice faced by disabled people every single day.
I made no personal attacks, I've had no comment deleted. Yet you start shouting bully because you don't like what people are saying. Try putting yourself in the shoes of a person with disabilities/parent of a child with disabilities who have to face such arrogance and prejudice on a daily basis.

Oh and any workplace (I would hope) would take a dim view of enabling disablist behaviour and views.