My experience of UK men vs European men early stages of a relationship

[lottieandmia]

I'm probably going to annoy some people with this post but it's just my experience and I wonder if anyone else has noticed the same.

The other day I was thinking about the fact that it is British guys usually whi seem to be the masters of dicking women around in the early stages of a relationship. They are the ones who don't know how they feel, say one thing and do another. You feel like you have to pin them down to state their feelings and they're still on Tinder/POF or whatever.

By contrast the European men were very up front about their feelings from the outset (I've found). This does NOT mean they are perfect - I've had a different set if problems with them that's all. But if they like you it's as straight forward as 'I like you, you like me - let's be together'.

For this reason I've had few relationships with UK guys, except my ex husband and even he was the same - messing me about stressing me for about 6 months. Then finally deciding he could say he really wanted to be with me.

I'm sure some people will think I'm unreasonable for a variety of reasons. Yes it's a generalisation just like Brits binge drink etc.

OP getting a tough time I think. There are cultural differences that would affect interpreting body language/ levels of keenness

Yes, let them prove to you with actions not words if they're worth investing in to. Cliché but true. Let that be your mantra if you are dating.

The other thing I really hate is the way men here seem to feel they are 'entitled' to nude photos as a kind of introduction to who you are. Whether this is a U.K. Thing I don't know.

Are you dating 14 year olds?

British men are European for the moment

I think this is a reflection on men on POF/Tinder.

Gosh OP getting flamegrilled here quite unreasonably. I'm no fan of sweeping generalisation myself but I can see what she means here. If you rephrase as 'British men in my experience are more prone to mucking about than their non-UK peers, e.g. men from other parts of Europe' I don't think that makes any assumptions or implies that all of EU is one homogenous lump. I have a lot of friends from Mediterranean Europe and often think to myself or suggest to dh that certain views they commonly hold are a bit different to ours (usually in a good way - e.g. they wouldn't dream of buying a takeaway!) However it's more a way if seeing our own values maybe from a non-Brit perspective that helps us understand them I think. Either way I think you should be able to say something about one culture being different to others without all the righteous indignation and implied cultural ignorance etc.
I'm also a bit uncomfortable with the more recent posts implying OP is causing these men to dick about because she's needy! Some people just have very bad luck with dating. I think it's also hard to keep your standards about other people's behaviour high if you date arseholes consecutively because they kind of unintentionally gaslight you until you don't always know what is and isn't ok. (Apologies OP if this isn't the case! I have friends who've had bad dating experiences and sometimes one bad one can seem to lead to the next.) Good men are out there though of every nationality 😄

mindtrope I think you're right actually.

Op I've never been messed about in this fashion, of course the early stages are about getting to know each other and not committing until you're sure. I wouldn't class this as being messed about as I'd have the same mindset. Also I've never been asked for a nude picture... I think you're meeting the wrong types of men British or not.

However I'm married and haven't been on a date in 6 years so maybe things have changed.

Honestly? It's a sweeping generalisation. Just like you would say that British people are tolerant. Clearly some are and some aren't

But there are a lot of difference about British men and their European counterpart.
The one I saw, rather than the one the OP saw, is the fact British men seem to need t know how to flirt and it is now very much of a 'OK it looks like you are quite keen for me, let's sleep together better if I'm drunk so it's easier and then see how the relationship is going'
I have found the European men much mor willing to put some work in at the start, (I'm thinking inviting yu to the cinema/restaurant/some time together on a one to one basis type of thing), see if they are like you and THEN start a relationship. Not the other way around.

Interestingly enough, I've seen a few threads on MN where 20is year old were saying that yes it was very much working like this here. That there is. A very strong relunctance to put yourself forward in case the woman was gping to say NO. So it ends up sleeping together and then wondering if the relationship can work.

Sorry it should have been
britsh men do NOT seem to know how to flirt

I personally have never seen anything ne in Europe, menor owmen, saying that they would be going out with someone, sleeping with them, for a while before 'committing'. The way of doing things is te other way around. Spend time together, get to know each other and when you are at the pint of sleeping together then you are also taking about being committed.
Sleeping with someone and at the same time still be looking at my ther women/be on Tinder or whatnot would VERY badly look at in my own country.

As a mixed Brit I think as a nation here relationships start either drunk or at work.
In my experience Latin Europeans use more flowery language in life so it sounds dramatic and romantic to the Anglo saxons.
Experience of the French,as a massive generalisation, is that there is a lot of what sounds like strong pronouncements early on and said on no or little alcohol.

That's. COmitted in the sense of the relationship being exclusive of course. Not in the sense of living together forever after!!

British men are European
^this
Until TM triggers article 50.....

I dated a Spanish man who messed me around more than any other man I have ever been with.

I'd be flakey and non-comittal too if the person I had just started seeing kept asking me what my feelings were and where this relationship is going 5 mins into the first rate and every 5 mins after that. Maybe chill out a bit OP

Yes at the moment British men are European...
I've found that Spanish, Italian, Greek, Turkish & Finnish men are more upfront in their opinion of you & more forthcoming with compliments than British men, couldn't comment on the rest as no experience of them.
As has been previously stated, there are arseholes in every country unfortunately & the naked pics thing is wankish behaviour but can also be viewed as them doing you a favour so you don't waste any more time on them.

I know what you are getting at OP. I think there's a fear in the "lad culture" bit of the UK that drives crap behaviour. I work with a lot of Italians and despite their lothario stereotype, they are actually all very family focussed and looking for someone their mother would like An equivalent group of young British men would tend to default to laddishness even if they didnt really want to.

NAMALT obviously.

British people will still be European after Brexit is finalised, but not part of the EU.

This is supposed to be lighthearted thank you but I'm not changing my name

I'm not on Tinder, I'm not on POF either (although I have been in the past) nor am I 'desperate' - I've observed this sort of crap in my friends lives as well. I don't think it makes you desperate to want someone to be honest ie not say one thing and mean something different.

'I'd be flakey and non-comittal too if the person I had just started seeing kept asking me what my feelings were and where this relationship is going 5 mins into the first rate and every 5 mins after that.'

Where did I say I do this? I don't like clingy people. Nobody does. That was not my point.

Unless you've been with at least 20 people from every part of Europe and Britain you can't really tar them all with the same brush.

If I pick from my longest relationships, I can compare my English boyfriend to my Swedish boyfriend. English boyfriend made me feel special every day, complimented me, wanted to show me off, spent time with me, shared my interests, was respectful to my family and generally made me feel very happy.

When he died and I was running out of fertile time I threw myself into a relationship with a Swedish man who stared at the tv, perhaps smiled a bit if I stroked his arm or something but otherwise didn't pay me much attention. I found it confusing but put it down to being a Swedish thing. Now I wish I hadn't. I never felt special. All the way through my pregnancy he would huff and puff if I so much as asked him to feel the baby kicking and shrugged at me when my waters broke like 'what do you want me to do about it?'

What the hell was I thinking?

For instance, it may be that, when dating across cultures, people in general are more up front and clear about what they want/think, because they are very aware of the problems of cross cultural communication
This is quite likely.

I have similar experience's to you op but still only a sample size. I wouldn't write off British men even if it wasn't though.

My best relationship was with a Spanish/Bolivian matching personality but what I admired most that he was open with his feeling and thoughts/intentions and it was refreshing without being suffocating like the Italian I once dated.

I wanted to run away from him although seemed like a perfectly nice guy with good traits.

A few other casuals from Turkish to south American, Canadian, polish(red flagged polish)
Besides culture aspects all over the world men and woman can behave like twats equally Imo.

'Fuckwit men, and women, only exist because others allow them to exist. '

Nice bit of victim blaming there?

I will admit that i do sometimes find it hard to read people (because I have AS as I've already said) this is a work in progress, however and my twat radar is improving. But I'll give you an example.

A guy who I met (not on pof - British) at great pains for me to know he's not like other guys. Was perfectly nice and seemed kind, family oriented. Suddenly he suggests that for a first date I go to his house (he doesn't live in the same town as me) for a 'takeaway' I said 'no, absolutely not.' Since then I haven't heard from him.

My view is that decent British guys all get taken early on at university and what's left just go on an endless loop of casual sex / lying and misrepresenting themselves. The reason they can do this is that our culture is not one which expects people to settle down and focus on their families.

Examples of the kind of thing I hate are making plans and then pretending we never did, or telling me I should have reminded him! and as some others have said lack of compliments and wanting to have sex before deciding whether or not a relationship is what they want.

I knew I would get flamed for this thread but I also knew that some others would have had the same experiences!

I married a 'European' man (quite a large geographical area there) and have dated guys from France, Germany etc.

There are certainly differences in how different cultures approach dating and marriage across Europe (in which I still include the UK) and so it is not surprising that this then manifests in differing experienced when going out with people from those countries.

It's a huge generalization but what I've noticed is- in lots of Med and Eastern European countries there's a big pressure to settle down and have a family, also being gay is less easily accepted (certainly in the Eastern European country my husband is from this is the case and in others such as Poland). This leads to a situation whereby by late 20s or early thirties, people are looking for marriage partners. It isn't socially acceptable to be drifting around by early forties dating on and off and having multiple girlfriends, which seems to be the norm still in big cities like London. I have many female friends from those countries who have felt the downside of that, which is huge pressure on women to settle down, plus if they are mid-thirties and haven't settled down, they are considered 'on the shelf' and all their older relatives tut over them. Same for men to a lesser extent. That doesn't mean all young people marry, many resist this but the strong pressure is there.

There's also a difference in communication styles, my husband is so blunt compared with many English men, and when I first met him I was taken aback by his 'I like you, shall I come around on Wed and take you to the pictures' type communication which often felt like more of a command than an invitation! I still think this differs than a lot of English men when I read the Relationships board where frank communication and stating your needs is so common. I've dated flaky English guys who just hope you know what they mean, aren't direct, give out mixed messages, change their mind all the time- the French guy I went out with that had second thoughts about our relationship just said so really honestly, so at least I knew where I stood.

I don't think any of this makes English men more unpleasant, or European men nicer, players/dishonest/abusive types can be found anywhere, but superficially, in the early days of a relationship interactional styles definitely differ between nations. In the long run, lots of European countries have high divorce rates, even given the stigma of it lingering for religious reasons, so I'm guessing it doesn't make much difference in the long run.