That fattist discrimination is allowed in the workplace?

[SortedwishIwas]

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/24/fattist-discrimination-should-be-outlawed-in-the-workplace-says/

Just read this article and it says it is not illegal to discriminate against overweight people.

Yet fat people are protected only if they can prove they are also disabled

from the article. So it is seems to be ok to discriminate against someone who is fat but not if they are fat and disabled?

This is worrying though but a separate issue from the same article

New forecasts show that obesity will soon be more common than being a normal weight.The figures from Cancer Research UK show on current trends, almost three in four adults will be overweight or obese by 2035.

For those saying fat people are fat because they overeat - yes, but that is a tautology and tells us nothing. Why do they overeat?

In the same way, consider a growing child. He is adding weight in the form of bone, muscle, fat, and so on, and he is eating more to allow this. Is he growing because he overeats? No, he is overeating because he is growing - hormones are acting on his body to make him grow, and they increase his hunger / desire to eat to support this.

In the same way, Gary Taubes would argue that carbs (and particularly sugar) act on our bodies producing an excess of hormones that make us grow (lay down fat) and increase hunger and desire to eat to support this.

(And of course there are other disorders which act in a similar way, without the need for excess sugar.)

So I do think there is an element of control (cut down those carbs!) - but it's not as simple as just eating less.

Yes miss it is extreme. But if myself when I was at my heaviest and my sister applied for a job many on here would employ her as obese equals unhealthy, lazy etc etc.
Yet she does no exercise bar walking and ihas no hobbies.
Meanwhile I swim, go to the gym, study etc etc.
OK extreme example but so many people people thinks it's OK to make sweeping statements about overweight people.

Interesting that in this same forum there is a thread about the reasons why (most) people were so much healthier (and slimmer) in the 70s compared to today.

The general consensus of opinion (which I agree with) is that it was a simple consuming fewer calories and expending more energy. The reason why this happened - and why it no longer happens - are not quite as simple but as a society we are becoming blind to obesity. Being overweight is becoming the norm and people who were considered normal looking in the 70s (and most of the 20th century) would now be considered, not just slim, but skinny.

Can you be overweight and healthy? Yes, of course, but the truth is that most overweight people are not as healthy as most people slim people. Most people's health would benefit from losing weight.

Being obese can also be an extreme form of body image control. Does that not make it a disease too?

If you are fat, you are getting more energy in than what you expend. This is true whatever disability you have or whatever medication you are on. This is why you see fat people in wheelchairs and slim people in wheelchairs; fat people on x medication and slim people on the same medication, etc

I think this is true.

I have a friend who is morbidly obese and she says she has hyperthyroidism. The doctors confirmed that she hasn't but she blames it that for not losing weight. She regularly overeats but it is easier for her to blame it on a medical condition than to actually eat less

Thyroid conditions can make it a lot harder to lose weight (and I am speaking from experience)
But they can't make you fat. Only eating too much and not moving enough can do that

fat people could eat less

Brilliant. Thanks for the heads up

My old boss said to me that I was too fat to be able to look smart for my job and maybe I should look for another one.
I was an insurance broker for fuck's sake!
Luckily I am confident and just laughed in her face and walked off. I was maybe only three stone overweight at the time, hardly gigantic.
I've left there now, I'd rather work in the casual environment of the NHS. Offices are toxic.

How fat are we talking?
I am at least 8 stone overweight according to the 'charts' and I have never been discriminated against for being fat in my life!
I have got every job I have been for bar one. ( My fault, wasn't prepared in interview) I have been promoted several times, find it easy to make friends and on the whole, strangers are really nice to me...

I'm ust wondering how fat I need to be to be a victim of our fattist society?
Am I just blissfully unaware and actually, everyone is slagging me off behind my back?
Or have I just been really lucky to avoid complete arseholes (who base their opinions of other people on appearance) for 40+ years?
Who knows!

Thyroid conditions can make it a lot harder to lose weight (and I am speaking from experience) But they can't make you fat. Only eating too much and not moving enough can do that

That is what I thought. She says her doctor told her that her metabolism was damaged and she might as well eat whatever she wants. Highly unlikely

I was discriminated against for going from a size 12 to a 14. It would never happen these days. Shocking when I look back at how I was treated. Things have certainly changed in my industry.

Whilst it is obviously true that if you gain weight you are consuming more calories than your body needs, I think what also should be aknowledged here is that some people need to eat less than normal amount due to different metabolisms. In our immediate family, DH is very tall and slim and has to eat constantly to maintain his weight. I am morbidly obese but 6'1" so people notice I am big but are surprised if I say I am Morbidly obese. I have been overweight since a small child and my mother put me on every diet imaginable. We have 3 children. DD1 is 13 and 6'1". She eats constantly and is slim, as is her sister. My son is a healthy BMI but 98th centile for height and weight and will prob have to watch his weight if he becomes less active. Metabolism makes a big difference.
What I am trying to say is that overweight people are not all greedy. In our family we all eat a similar amount and to lose weight I would need to eat less.

Quite honestly being morbidly obese could be a real problem in my job. We often have to climb 6 flights of stairs with equipment and work for long hours on our feet. I'm not sure I could do that if I was much more overweight that I am and I know my employers would really have to think twice taking someone like that on, they may be very capable and have great personalities but physically I do not think they could do the job. That is basically discrimination and someone could bring a law suit.

I think there are some things people are overlooking in this conversation, mostly because they are getting lost in the blaming fat people for being fat argument.

1. if 75% of the population is going to be rated as overweight/obese are we really saying that it's because 75% are lazy/greedy? Or is it time to look at underlying reasons (i.e. more sugar/junk being put into even canned tomatoes, more and more cheaper convenience foods, the continued focus on low fat/high carb diets, taking advantage of the fact that BOTH parents are now usually working, and working longer hours than previously, and at more sedentary jobs, etc). I think we need to start looking at the real reasons driving the increase in obesity and stop blaming individuals (which is what the government/industry want us to do because it saves them time and money).

2. Health. Studies show that people in the normal and overweight categories generally carry the same level of health and life expectancy. The difference is quite minimal, with people deemed overweight but active living longer than people who are normal weight but inactive (skinny/fat people). The two BMI ranges with the highest level of morbidity attached to them are underweight and morbidly obese. The problem is everyone keeps lumping in overweight and obese people together. They aren't the same thing and they don't have the same health outcomes. The reason they keep getting dumped together is because the medical industry wants to deny service to more people.

3. Generally people who fall in the morbidly obese spectrum have been diagnosed with mental disabilities similar to what you would find with an anorexic. It's about control and controlling your body. Neither extreme should be aspired too, or flaunted as perfect. However, that leaves a whole bunch of body sizes/shapes/levels of fitness in between that are perfectly healthy and should be celebrated. So just saying "plus size models are promoting obesity" is exactly like saying "regular sized models are promoting anorexia" and "fitness models are promoting ortheorexia." Some are, most aren't.

4. The biggest drain on most Western populations now is the AGEING population, not the obese. Treating people with Alzheimer's costs more than treating Type II Diabetes. Lung cancer costs less than new joints. Because the quicker people die, the less they cost in 24 hour care.

5. Japan may be thin, but it also has one of the highest suicide rates in the world due to the strong pressure to conform in every aspect.

If people are being passed over for jobs based solely on appearance rather than competence or suitability, than it should be classified as discrimination. End of. That doesn't mean that an obese person can't be turned down for the job of say, flight attendant, because they are not physically suitable, anymore than a person in a wheel chair could be hired as a flight attendant, but it does mean that they shouldn't be discriminated against for a job where there weight doesn't impact on their ability to do the job.

I have been overweight since a small child and my mother put me on every diet imaginable.

There's a lot of evidence to say yo-yo dieting messes up your metabolism. I believe my years of anorexia and over exercise have had a profound impact on my metabolism, which is why I struggle with my weight now even though I eat less and exercise more than most people thinner than me.

We often have to climb 6 flights of stairs with equipment and work for long hours on our feet. I'm not sure I could do that if I was much more overweight that I am and I know my employers would really have to think twice taking someone like that on, they may be very capable and have great personalities but physically I do not think they could do the job. That is basically discrimination and someone could bring a law suit.

No, that isn't discrimination. If the person is not physically capable of performing the jobs essential functions, in your case 6 flights of stairs with heavy equipment and long hours on your feet, than not hiring them would not be discrimination. Anymore than it would be discrimination if they didn't hire someone in a wheelchair, or an amputee.

I'm a fat person who could lose weight by eating less. I have struggled with my weight all my life and been every UK clothing size from 10 to 20. I will always struggle with my weight but always try to be as healthy as I can in what I eat and do. I don't drink or smoke, lead an active life as a mosaic artist, making mosaics for public space and teaching mosaic skills- quite physical at times. I walk and use public transport so have a small carbon footprint. I work in the community and put in a lot of free hours. I'm a good person who contributes as much as I can. So Fuck off!

I really don't get the relevance of whether someone can or can't help their weight gain to tge question of whether they should be afforded decency, respect and to be judged fairly when it comes to their ability to do a job.

Brilliant posts thefitfatty

I often think that the real reason many people are fattist is resentment that they control their intake or eat responsibly and feel irritated that not everybody plays the same game. Or cares enough to bother. I was obese for a while and just....ate what I liked, no restraints. It was actually quite liberating in a way, not giving a shit after being sensible all my life. but the reality was that I had so many emotional issues/ kids/loss to cope with, that I just didn't have the capacity to worry about what I put in my mouth. This is what many normal sized people don't see. sometimes you can't make yourself care.

But what about if they become that obese AFTER getting the job, it happens?

some people's bodies have found a way to create energy from nothing

Sorry, but while I'm no medic that sounds very unlikely. Do you have any links which show it to be the case?

What I am trying to say is that overweight people are not all greedy. In our family we all eat a similar amount and to lose weight I would need to eat less

I don't think they are possibly greedy but they are eating more than their body needs. I am small in height so can't eat as much as someone taller. I would love to but have to accept that I can't. It is about people eating more than their body needs. The size of the stomach is actually quite small and most people don't need a lot of food. A lot of slim people may eat quite a lot but they may have visceral fat stuck to their organs which is definitely not healthy either

*So I do think there is an element of control (cut down those carbs!) - but it's not as simple as just eating less&

Well it was for me. I like my food. I got a bit overweight. I didn't like it. Eventually I found some self-control and ate less. And then I started exercising more, and realised I could eat a bit more again. I have a much larger appetite than most people I know, it's noticeable when I go to work lunches and the like that I polish off far more food.

they may have visceral fat stuck to their organs

not much you can do about that if it's your body shape. Whenever I lose weight, my hips and waist lose inches in proportion. I will never have the right ratio - my waist will always be too wide for my slim hips. That's the way it is. So I may well be carrying too much fat in bad places, I just have to hope that my fairly healthy lifestyle cancels it out.

Anyway I'd rather die of a heart attack in my 70s than linger on until my 90s in an underfunded care home.