That fattist discrimination is allowed in the workplace?

[SortedwishIwas]

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/24/fattist-discrimination-should-be-outlawed-in-the-workplace-says/

Just read this article and it says it is not illegal to discriminate against overweight people.

Yet fat people are protected only if they can prove they are also disabled

from the article. So it is seems to be ok to discriminate against someone who is fat but not if they are fat and disabled?

This is worrying though but a separate issue from the same article

New forecasts show that obesity will soon be more common than being a normal weight.The figures from Cancer Research UK show on current trends, almost three in four adults will be overweight or obese by 2035.

I don't really understand.

Person A is disciplined and studies trends in their field of work
Person B is undisciplined and doesn't bother

Person A is hired over person B

Person A is disciplined and keeps slim and healthy and less likely to be off work due to illness
Person B is undisciplined and is obese, and is more likely to be ill

Person A shouldn't be hired over person B???

You are less likely to get a job if you are obese. Society and the movies, adverts and everything else, tell us that successful clever people aren't obese. They are of course wrong but if you are exposed the message often enough (and we are) then you start to unconsciously believe it.

If you have two approximately equal candidates for a job and one is obese, you better believe their chances aren't the 50:50 it should be!

Not all Fat people have emotional or underlying issues. Many people are fat because they are greedy. Many are overweight because they don't understand what is healthy and what is not...and many don't eat too much but don't move around enough.
You can't assume every fat person is lazy or greedy or assume every fat person has an addiction or emotional problem.
All cases are different.
Some people will make judgements and choose a slim person over a fat person for jobs the same as some people won't go out with or have a relationship with an overweight person.
Being horrible to someone because they are fat is bullying and always wrong.
Being Fat is not always an illness, anorexia and alcoholism are illnesses.

The association of 'discipline' with being slim is part of the problem, roses. It assumes that because someone has a problematic relationship with food, they are deficient in other ways as a human being - e.g. lazy, uncommitted, stupid and less worthwhile. That is an assumption, and it is discriminatory.

I'm going for an interview tomorrow, I suspect I will be discriminated against because I am fat ( not extremely so) I think "fair enough" I have eaten like a pig over Christmas which shows poor judgement and lack of self control, and I don't look very nice.

Would you hire an overweight person who would struggle with some aspects of their job role?

I did. Took a chance on her. She's slow. Customers appear frustrated with that. But she's great in other aspects

No sure if I knew what I know now if I'd employ her again tho

On a plus note.... she has lost weight! Not that much but enough for me to notice

rose person B may be more disciplined than A. Person B may be less unhealthy than A. You are assuming the reverse with no concrete evidence beyond stereotyping.

That is basically the definition of discrimination.

If B actually has a worse sickness record than A then that is different. Or if there is some actual direct evidence that they are less disciplined.

But their weight is not a direct indicator of either discipline or health.

tall men reach higher positions...
Well, obviously!

shovetheholly - for me it is true, DH is very thin teaches exercise classes despite being over 60, swims, does weights and looks amazing. I just slob about and eat for no reason other than that I enjoy food and get bored. I need to step up and accept responsibility for this not look for excuses.

I think a lot of people tend to forget that food can be an addiction. Just like cigarettes drugs and alcohol. Which people rightly so have sympathy for.

But it's still not a protected characteristic. If someone is a smoker or drug addict, you can discriminate against them for this if you want, it's not against the law. It's not necessarily nice or fair, but it's legal. There are situations where you won't want someone to be nipping off for a fag or stinking of smoke because of a choice they themselves have autonomously made.

Obviously a good employer would signpost staff to Stop Smoking resources and incentivise not smoking (a previous employer of mine provided free fruit to those who did not take cigarette breaks) rather than discriminate against them. But the law doesn't exist to make everyone a good employer, it exists to protect those vulnerable to situations where they have no control.

exconstance okay - just don't fall into the trap of thinking that what is true for you is true for everyone else. Because it isn't.

I think there is actually a big element of choice in many addictions. No one wakes up one morning a heroin addict, or an alcoholic. There is a whole process of choosing to take drugs or drink that comes first.

exconstance - what morphene says. Plus, I think 'taking responsibility' doesn't necessarily mean being unkind to yourself. In fact, I think that's part and parcel of an unhealthy way of thinking about food. If you see diet as a 'privation' that you 'deserve' because you lack discipline, you're less likely to stick to it. If you see eating healthily as a 'gift' that you're giving your better self, then that's a more positive spin on the same behaviour.

Let me turn this around. I have had episodes of anorexia in my life, during which I have been extremely thin. At those points, I was less competent at my job due to the effects of low calories on my head and my body (lower energy levels, lower brain function). If you had assumed that I was a disciplined, good worker on the basis of my body, you'd have been very mistaken.

There is a whole process of choosing to take drugs or drink that comes first

Yes, initially, when you are naive and ignorant. No one does those things thinking they will become addicted and not all who do get addicted.
The emotionally vulnerable will, however find relief from their problems and use them as an escape...and become addicted.

It's a very difficult one. I'm obese. Part of the reason I'm obese is that I eat too much. However, I was not obese 3 years ago when I was diagnosed with breast cancer. I'm now on a lot of drugs, most of which have the side effect of weight gain. As a result of my cancer, I also went through the menopause at 38. People tend to agree that weight is harder to lose after menopause.
I have a disability - anyone who has had cancer does. But I'm fat. Do I have to wear a sign saying I'm fat because I had cancer and that's a disability?

food an addiction like drugs/alcohol?

It feels like we are heading (quickly) to a world where all overweight/obese people are seen as helpless victims of an addiction. Don't know if that is wrong or right, but it seems unworkable?

How are we as a society going to cope with 75% of people (number quoted upthread) being classed as "food addicts" = disabled?

Also, 'choices' in a human context don't happen on a level playing field in which everyone has equal chances at fulfillment and happiness. The stories of many addicts would break your heart.

However addiction is not a choice, either

I despair at this kind of thinking. Sure, addiction at a certain point isn't a choice. That said, there are many points along the road to addiction where you can say: I need to sort this.

There are a fair few people out there who don't drink or eat as much as desire.

I am trying to defeat sugar addiction. I have seen a weight management psychologist and I have been assessed for help before considering surgery. He said to me that people like me who had well meaning mothers who weaned them at 3 months, put sugar in the formula and always rewarded with sweets help to set an addiction I had before I was a year old. I am 50 it takes a lot more than some misguided person telling me not to eat. I could tell an alcoholic not to drink the brain does not work that way. As for the "person B is disciplined" line from a pp some people need to read more about how the human brain and body works before making judgements.

Fat people could eat less
If that's all it took, there would be no fat people. Guaranteed.

It is possible for most fat people to not be fat, which isn't the case with race, sex or disability. Therefore it shouldn't be treated in the same way, in my opinion. Saying that eating is an addiction and therefore not anyone's fault is neither here nor there - I wouldn't employ an alcoholic, or someone who kept on going out for cigarette breaks every half an hour.

A lot of people are focussing on whether it's fair to treat being overweight as a protected characteristic for the purposes of the Act, which would require reasonable adjustments and eradication of indirect discrimination etc which might not be appropriate in all cases but there is discrimination that falls short of bullying that surely isn't defensible, eg not employing someone because of their weight when this has no bearing on their ability to do the job. It's clear from some of the responses that this does happen. I rather suspect it affects women more than men too. I agree with the OP that there is a gap in the law here.

NathanBarleyrocks

See, you get it too!

morphene

If you have two approximately equal candidates for a job and one is obese, you better believe their chances aren't the 50:50 it should be!

But they shouldn't be. If they both had identical experience, grades etc but one is obese, the one less likely to take time off work, the one with a healthier diet giving them more energy, the one who physically demonstrates self-control etc should get the job over the one who has made at least one obvious life choice.

shovetheholly

I'd have assumed someone very underweight was as unable to do the job as someone very over weight. Not everyone looks at size zero as the optimal body size. In fact, most healthy people don't.

RubyWinterstorm

We're quickly heading to a world where victimhood is the default.

I tend to see this prediction of 3/4 of people being obese as mother nature sorting out the overpopulation problem. Less fertile and shorter life expectancy.

I haven't and wouldn't employ a crack addict, smoker or alcoholic, for those suggesting obese people are poor hard-done-bys suffering from an addiction. This isn't the same as saying they shouldn't be helped out of their situation but there is no way I'd view them (with an eye to employment) in the same light as someone without those problems.

I've just realised that I have no fear of being discriminated against in this interview because I am over 60, but I do think that perhaps I will be discriminated against because I am fat.

Many people are fat because everyone around them is fat . It has become normal to be fat. Hopefully things will change before life expectancy plummets. Maybe discrimination will help people to see that it's a mistake to be fat.