AIBU to think ff babies sleep better than bf babies?

[Scrumptiouscrumpets]

It seems blatantly obvious to me that ff babies sleep better than bf babies. Just take a look at the sleep board on here, the bad sleepers under a year old are more or less all bf (and many of the older ones too!). Yet nobody officially seems to acknowledge this, all bf info I can find on the Internet states that bf mums actually get more sleep than ff mums because it takes more time to make up a bottle etc. Well maybe that's true during the first three months but definitely not later on when the ff babies start sleeping in long stretches while the bf babies start to wake more and more often!
I have a 4 month old who is ebf and I love bf, but I am seriously considering switching to formula.
Am I just imagining things? Are all these bf blogs right and bf mums actually get more sleep?

Sorry but Women have breastfed from day dot. Even if it was behind door.

But that's the problem - if it's behind doors because women feel forced to hide it away, other women aren't seeing it. Breastfeeding doesn't become part of every day life; it becomes something disgusting to be hidden away, which will damage the numbers of women wanting to give it a try.

If women who are happy to breastfeed in public are supported to do so, and we're given more examples of women in movies and TV breastfeeding, rather than automatically showing bottles, it gets into the national psyche and helps to normalise BF.

I think BF is a concept that should be introduced in PSHE/Child Development classes at school.

Marypoppinspenguins, but breastfeeding does reduce the risk of SIDS.

marypoppins-

Breastfeeding your baby reduces the risk of SIDS.

THis is from the NHS website.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/pregnancy-and-baby/pages/reducing-risk-cot-death.aspx

And from The UKs leading charity on SIDS

"Breastfed babies have a lower chance of SIDS

As long ago as 1965 it was shown that babies under 3 months who died of SIDS were less likely to be breastfed than infants who did not die. Since then, numerous studies have supported the protective effects of breastfeeding, with one overview report concluding that breastfeeding reduces the incidence of SIDS by approximately half."

www.lullabytrust.org.uk/breastfeeding

mindtrope - not all studies have found that breastfeeding reduces the risk of SIDS and they 50% reduction that lullaby have on their website is taken from a poorly cited German study where they failed to account for socio-economic factors at all (which have a huge bearing on the rate of SIDS).

The NHS advice derives from this article

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2083309/ which concludes that breastfeeding should be mentioned even though the evidence is not very strong, as it reduces overall risk of illness, which is clearly beneficial to a baby.

Anyway OP - you don't need to stop breastfeeding, just give your LO a bottle of formula before you go to bed and they'll sleep better. I did this for a few months and it didn't affect my supply.

My baby exclusively bf and now sleeps through. My friends baby solely formula and wakes several times a night still and both are 16 months old.
The research suggests bf mothers get approx 40 mins more sleep a night than formula mothers.
Bf has sleep hormones in the milk at night making it 'easier' to get baby back to sleep and if you co-sleep (following safe guidelines) as a bf mother you'll get more rest by feeding lying down as baby can latch and unlatch as they want.

Don't get me wrong BF is bloody hard and there were a few occasions where I thought this myself but then going with research (as my DS wouldn't take a bottle) I'm glad I didn't now. Babies don't just wake for milk, they wake for company, comfort, a cuddle.

Yes definitely true

Lots of friends with babies here and I see no correlation anecdotally. The worst sleepers I have known have been a mixture of EBF and FF. 3 DCs and my worst sleeper is the only one who would take a bottle of formula before bed. It made not an iota of difference to her terrible sleep. I wish it did.

But mindtrope if you don't smoke either in pregnancy or after, put your baby to bed on their back, keep them in the same room as you, look after them properly the risk of SIDs is low in a healthy full term baby anyway. It is also very difficult to separate correlation and causation even when there is control.

The most awful risk for SIDS IMO though is prematurity because parents really can't do anything about that.

I'm on a fb page dedicated to us mums with sleep theives and it's a mix of ff and bf babies.

Sorry but Women have breastfed from day dot. Even if it was behind door.

Yes they have but there must be a reason why bf rates in the U.K are so low. I hesitate to bring class into it but I did find that those at my local breastfeeding cafe tended to be middle class mothers in their 30s, whether it's cos they were more confident about seeking support with it I don't know.

Long thread, haven't read through all of it, because it's been a bit repetitive. The bit I skimmed through only seem to have a couple of posts which refer to the evidence rather than basing their view on their own experience.

The Infant Sleep Information Source (ISIS ) based at Durham University has this to say:

"Research shows that formula-fed babies sleep deeper and
for longer bouts earlier than breastfed babies, although the
total amount of sleep is the same. Using formula or ‘sleep
training’ to encourage babies to 'sleep through' before they are
ready to do so makes it difficult to keep on breastfeeding. It may also encourage babies to
develop mature sleep patterns before other processes such as those controlling the regulation of
temperature, hormone production, and the genes that control our biological rhythms, have
developed. Arousal from sleep is thought to be an important mechanism protecting babies from
potentially fatal heart-rate or breathing episodes associated with Sudden Infant Death Syndrome
(SIDS). Encouraging long and deep periods of sleep before babies are ready may put some
babies at increased risk of SIDS.
See our other info sheets and www.isisonline.org.uk for more information."

So yes, they may sleep longer and deeper when formula fed than when breastfed, which might go some way to explain why ff babies are more likely to succumb to SIDS than breastfed babies.

I wondered when minifingerz would turn up

So yes, they may sleep longer and deeper when formula fed than when breastfed, which might go some way to explain why ff babies are more likely to succumb to SIDS than breastfed babies.

There is also a definite level of logic to that if babies sleep more deeply then SIDS is more likely

I was wondering too blackberry

Thanks to everyone who shared their experiences and opinions! I feel a bit more positive now because my toddler slept well these last two nights. Dealing with just one non-sleeping DC is much better for my mood, it gives me hope that things really will get better some day!
My DP is going to give DS2 a bottle of formula for his 11 pm feed tonight, even if it doesn't make him sleep longer at least it'll give me a longer stretch of sleep.
Many posters suggested co-sleeping: we did co-sleep until last week but he is now beginning to roll over, so it's no longer safe, and there is no room in our flat to put the mattress on the floor.

Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS)

Not helpful in the breast feeding / formula feeding debate to discuss SIDS risk.

Not only is it not relevant to the decision not to breastfeed for most, it's also a complex data area.

For anyone who wishes to argue that the SIDS risk is sufficient enough to impact on feeding decision, I'd counter with the fact that breastfeeding mums are more likely to cosleep, especially white British, and there are no studies that have ever shown cosleeping decreases SIDS risk, it always shows an increased SIDS risk.

(Source: Lullaby Trust Evidence Base)

● So breastfeeding reduces SIDS risk
● Cosleeping increases SIDS risk
● Breastfeeding frequency and cosleeping rates are directly correlated

I wouldn't argue against safe cosleeping.
I wouldn't argue against encouraging breastfeeding.

I would NOT bring SIDS risk into the decision whether or not to do either.

FATE - if the NHS finds it acceptable in light of current evidence to include 'reduces the risk of SIDS' as one of the benefits of breastfeeding listed on NHS Choices, and that this is also listed by the Lullaby Trust as a benefit of breastfeeding then I think it's absolutely reasonable to include a reference to it in a discussion about sleep and feeding methods.

Would also add that UNICEF and the Durham University's Infant Sleep Lab include bottle feeding as an independent risk factor for bed sharing - they are unequivocal that ff mothers should avoid bed sharing.

I absolutely can't see the argument for excluding this fact from discussions about feeding and sleeping.

"There is also a definite level of logic to that if babies sleep more deeply then SIDS is more likely"

All the things parents have traditionally been encouraged to do to make babies sleep less like babies deeply - prone sleeping, solitary sleeping, bottle feeding, are implicated in increasing the risk of SIDS.

But then so are things like falling asleep with the baby in a bath or on a sofa or left in car seats all of which are more likely if the parent is exhausted. Something they will be if baby isn't sleeping. That is something that needs to also be weighed up when making the decision.

Babies also die of SIDS whilst in the day time in a moses basket right next to the parents in the lounge.

"I would NOT bring SIDS risk into the decision whether or not to do either."

Parents need ALL of the information about the possible advantages and disadvantages of breastfeeding in order to make a fully informed choice.

Let them look at the data and make up their own minds as to whether they think it matters or not. All parents have their individual comfort zones when it comes to assessment of risk and their babies/children.

If infant feeding is referred to by major health bodies like the NHS and UNICEF as an independent risk/protective factor when it comes to SIDS, then it's right that parents should be privy to the information.

What I meant minifingerz was that when a woman tried to breastfeed her baby and then ultimately feels she needs to decide to change to formula, SIDS is not usually a relevant factor in that decision.

In that it usually means the woman (and baby) are struggling breastfeeding, for one reason or another, and the support she needs isn't there. A struggling mum in that moment rarely thinks of SIDS risk as a factor.

(In exactly the same way a desperate new mum rarely considers the SIDS risks of cosleeping when they start cosleeping for more sleep)

You're allowed to agree with me minifingerz This could be a win:win debate if only we could fine the right policy to increase the rates of breast feeding in the UK.

Isn't it more relevant when an expectant mother is thinking about choosing to breastfeed or to use formula (or a mix) from the beginning? Rather than someone thinking about switching?

Yes, it's relevant in the initial decision a mother makes at birth to formula or breastfeed.

In my naive world, I hadn't really thought about women who don't even want to breastfeed once.

What's the proportion on that? I'd assumed low, surely everyone starts off breastfeeding and the main problem with BF figures is those that don't continue? But maybe that's just my projection.

From the last infant feeding survey I think it's something like 80ish% start breastfeeding, although that includes women who intend to only do a few colostrum feeds and then switch to formula.

How sad that 1 in 5 don't even try, if that's the case.

What are drop out figures like for breastfeeding?

It drops off very quickly, to 69% at 1 week, then 55% at 6 weeks. By 6 months it's fallen to 34% (numbers are from the 2010 infant feeding survey content.digital.nhs.uk/catalogue/PUB08694/Infant-Feeding-Survey-2010-Consolidated-Report.pdf). That includes anyone who is breastfeeding at all, so includes all the variations of mixed feeding. Only 1% of women exclusively breastfeed to 6 months.

There's a lot of regional variation in those figures, so your own experience of those around you could be a lot different to the headline figures.