AIBU to think ff babies sleep better than bf babies?

[Scrumptiouscrumpets]

It seems blatantly obvious to me that ff babies sleep better than bf babies. Just take a look at the sleep board on here, the bad sleepers under a year old are more or less all bf (and many of the older ones too!). Yet nobody officially seems to acknowledge this, all bf info I can find on the Internet states that bf mums actually get more sleep than ff mums because it takes more time to make up a bottle etc. Well maybe that's true during the first three months but definitely not later on when the ff babies start sleeping in long stretches while the bf babies start to wake more and more often!
I have a 4 month old who is ebf and I love bf, but I am seriously considering switching to formula.
Am I just imagining things? Are all these bf blogs right and bf mums actually get more sleep?

Not my experience. My ff dd wouldn't sleep for longer than 40 mins at a time until she was 20mo

Breastfed all 3.

2 were very bad sleepers and 1 was an excellent sleeper right from 2 weeks. No rhyme or reason.

Plus you can't talk about breastfeeding in our current culture without it being taken as an insult or attack on those who formula feed.

Really REALLY agree with this.

Different at different stages... for newborns ff does fill them up and the milk doesn't change - bm isn't as filling at night so will need more feeds to build supply.

As they get older to around 4 months a ff baby is more likely to have less feeding to sleep associations and so might not have to contend with the regression.

Older again a ff baby is less likely to comfort feed overnight like a bf baby might. The parent can also rationalise a bit that the baby has had 8oz at 11pm so won't starve overnight.

FF babies can sleep better but babies wake for a variety of reasons... bfing can be a solution to many of those although it might just be a quick fix of the effects that the cause

True from my experience tbh. My son barely slept more than half an hour at a time when BF. When I had to give up and switched to formula he went 4 hour stretches, sometime smore

Definitely true from my own personal experience and that of friends/family.

have chosen to FF might consider giving one or two colustrum and transitional milk feeds full of antibodies without then being pressured to continue

Not every mum who ends up FF has the option to do this. I'm possibly in a minority but it took me 50mins to pump an ounce. Not a great situation when you're finding yourself feeding, pumping and then back to feeding. It feels relentless.

I should learn my lesson and stay off these threads. If it was men who were in charge of feeding I doubt this kind of debate would even exist. There's enough shit for mums to put up with, without turning in on ourselves about how we feed our babies.

Bcup I'm saying women shouldn't feel pressured to BF if they can't or don't want to, not that they should struggle on whatever the circumstances.

Pumping is definitely not for everyone and does not reflect at all what goes into baby when he feeds etc.
It is in my eyes a very important discussion. It is a very important decision which should always be a free and informed decision but often it thwarted by bad advice/incorrect information and mostly lack of support. So we do need to discuss it.
Discussing it does not mean anyone should feel guilty for their choices but we should acknowledge where we, as a society, are going wrong and support women/mothers in making a free and informed decision.

Certainly to ff just because there is a belief that baby will sleep 'better' is concerning. The only reason for baby to sleep longer (IF they do) is because they are struggling to digest/process the milk. It is not a 'good' reason, it is not a benefit of ff, it is a necessary evil which comes with a silver lining I suppose. And it needs to be re-stated in the right context: in the context of the risks associated with ff, the fact that once the switch has been made there is little room to turn back and the fact that there is no guarantee of 'success'.
I would look at other ways to deal with frequent waking if the mother is struggling; asking partner to help soothe baby back to sleep or simply supporting the mother in coping better (incl Co sleeping for instance).

"Breast is best" is an incredibly harmful message. It puts off nervous first-time mums, creates tension between BF and FF mums, leads to debates and stress and women feeling pressure, shame and judgement.

Breast is the biological norm. Formula feeding is a perfectly acceptable alternative, but good practical support should be accessible to all women who want it (right now we're failing on that front, badly). Formula feeding carries risks with it, but the overwhelming majority of formula-fed babies grow up with no negative effects, and you can't tell the difference between an individual FF baby and an individual BF baby at any stage from newborn to adulthood. Breastmilk is biologically designed for your baby, but we can't continue painting a rosy picture of BF without warning women that it's hard - it's a skill that takes time and effort to acquire - and the woman should never feel that she has to compromise her mental health to breastfeed.

More widely-accessible, regulated donor milk would be a positive start (right now these stocks are rightly allocated to the poorliest babies who need it most). More representation of mums breastfeeding (especially WoC, younger mums etc) in the media; more businesses openly declaring their support for breastfeeding and most vitally, the proper practical support that mums need to breastfeed successfully - we need all of these if we're going to start properly tackling our low breastfeeding rates.

There is no shame in choosing either method. The shame is that women are, in too many cases, not supported in achieving the feeding method they chose.

EBF 2. First had mammoth feeds and slept all night from very early on. In fact I was setting an alarm to wake up and feed in the night because she never woke up. Virtually never cried because hungry because I always realised it was time for a feed before her.
Second have tiny amounts then scream the house down for more 45 mins later. Never bloody slept and still wakes most nights now at 3.5 years old. I think her bad sleeping down to the way she fed rather than BF. But now nothing to do with it so just a bad sleeper. The bugger wouldn't have a bottle anyway - I tried.

Ovaries I think that should be warning women that it can be hard, or that bits of it will be hard. It's not a slog day after day for all women! Ime first two months were hard, and then every 6 months or so there'd be a bad week with a cracked nipple, and then easy again. I have bf babies for five and a half years of my life and at most one of those years was "hard".
No need to put people off unnecessarily, while also not painting a picture that it is easy as falling off a log.

Ooh yes Mistress, sorry. That'll teach me to write posts at the same time as trying to stop DD throwing dinner everywhere

I stand by that women should be taught that it is a skill. Some women will pick up the skill straight away, some will struggle for weeks, but everyone has to work at it to master it. Anything would be better than the current "breast is best" wishy-washy rubbish.

Maybe the reason there isn't more support with breastfeeding is that it's just not investing the amount of money in doing it, because when all is said and done, the difference that breastfeeding actually makes to the lives of a child or a mother, is negligible (once all other factors are accounted for). So as much as the NHS wants women to breastfeed, it's not worth it financially to give that support.

If that leaves women suffering PhD and lifelong guilt for their perceived failure, then I doubt the government is particularly bothered. It's just another half-baked policy.

Ime this is true.

My bf baby slept brilliantly. Better than a ff baby who was a week older than mine.

Not all bf babies are terrible sleepers.

Even if it is true I wonder how many of those who have bf a poor sleeper would ff the next time round to get more sleep, my 14m old is bf, she's never slept well and I'm unsure whether this is related to bf (anecdotally I know many ff babies who are poor sleepers too) but regardless, I still intend to bf my next baby. Despite a painful start I just loved the whole experience. The only thing I will do is try and introduce a bottle sooner, I do think nipple confusion is a bit of a myth.

blackberry my mind always boggles at how anyone could love bfing

I know I probably just didn't do it for long enough but I positively hated it... different strokes hey?!

I agree re nipple confusion. I'd bet there are a lot more bottle/dummy refusers because of this 6 week guidance

I recall thinking about ff to get more sleep and because I was still having bf pain. Three of my friends with slightly older children said "Don't bother. Formula didn't help them sleep one bit. Bah."

I agree with Ovaries that a good message to put across would be that about a third of woman find breastfeeding a doddle, another third find it a bit tricky to start but can get the hang of it with a little advice and support, and the other third find it difficult, and even if they make use of all the available support might still struggle, even though if adequate support existed they might manage but will have to decide for themselves if it's worth the effort.

SIL had a baby just before me and all the HCPs were surprised that she even tried to breastfeed (21yo single parent) and quite dismissive of her bothering. I was 35 and got huge amounts of encouragement from all HCPs but very little practical help - luckily the internet existed, but SIL was apologising for not being able to help me more, but "I just stuck my tit in his mouth and it worked! Sorry it's not so easy for you."

Not in my experience DD was BF and slept through from 6 weeks, DS was BF then FF and wasn't a great sleeper on either.
I think some babies would probably sleep better on formula (very full) and some on breast (less tummy pain etc). I wouldn't make any decisions about feeding based on sleep, it could go either way.

Op, I agree, even though every baby is different, ha. My first child bf for a few weeks, ex dp felt left out so unhappily switched to ff. Our other two dd were bf and I had to invest in a co sleep cot to keep my sanity. Oh and the irony of switching to ff, ex dp didn't get up to make one bottle or during the day

I really don't think it makes a difference. Both of mine were formula fed, DS1 was a terrible sleeper, DS2 was brilliant. Oh and neither of mine were chubby!

I think it's true. Just among babies I know.

I'm a bit shocked no one commented on one of the previous posts that advised not switching to formula for risk of cot death!

Jesus. Some of us had no choice.

Aye - the reason more isn't done to support bf is not that the long term difference is negligible as the research/studies contradict that and also it's too early to know the real long term effect (so it is all abt risks and probabilities). The reason is more complicated than that but partly imo because commercial milk has a a clear economic value (makes money for manufacturers etc) and also the medical profession actually helped the manufacturers get where they are and contributed to creating the 'problem' (by problem I mean that manufacturers have created a need, a market that didn't rly exist before and in the process undermined bf without realising the consequences, and the medical profession, often unwittingly, helped them with that) so it is not so straightforward to disentangle everything.

Fully agree that 'breast is best' is a very unhelpful 'slogan' and actually helps formula milk manufacturers maintain their markets. It makes bf sound like some form of unattainable ideal.

What we need is true information and real support. And to see women breastfeed more as the more it is 'seen' the easier it will be. It is not an easy trend to reverse but it is worth it.

And to see women breastfeed more as the more it is 'seen' the easier it will be

That's not true. Sorry but Women have breastfed from day dot. Even if it was behind door. Most women give breast feeding ago but a lot of women struggle with it for many reasons.

Just luckily women are not pressured to continue doing something that causes pain, discomfort or for what ever reason they want to switch to ff.

Both of my children have been FF, ds1 didn't sleep through the night until he was over 2 years old and ds2 currently 22 weeks old still has me up at least 4 times a night to have milk. The worst night which was only a week ago I was up 11 times with him! FF has not helped in my case! I wish it would as feel like I am on my knees with tiredness