AIBU to think ff babies sleep better than bf babies?

[Scrumptiouscrumpets]

It seems blatantly obvious to me that ff babies sleep better than bf babies. Just take a look at the sleep board on here, the bad sleepers under a year old are more or less all bf (and many of the older ones too!). Yet nobody officially seems to acknowledge this, all bf info I can find on the Internet states that bf mums actually get more sleep than ff mums because it takes more time to make up a bottle etc. Well maybe that's true during the first three months but definitely not later on when the ff babies start sleeping in long stretches while the bf babies start to wake more and more often!
I have a 4 month old who is ebf and I love bf, but I am seriously considering switching to formula.
Am I just imagining things? Are all these bf blogs right and bf mums actually get more sleep?

So you don't think that current breastfeeding policy results in an increase in infant mortality? I'm just a bit confused about why this focus on the idea that there's a problem with people being "precious" about breastfeeding, and it's related to hospitalisation and death.

...while you faff around with prepping

50 seconds in the microwave and shake.

It'd take me longer to unhook my boob.

(Go on, let's have a massive debate about NHS advice on making up formula. I'm up for that....)

Really? Your bra must be special.

is there the political will and the money for it though? I don't think there is, and there won't be for a good long while I suspect.

That's a more interesting discussion speak. You are right and I agree.

It's frustrating because bf rates could be better, I feel. But you have to balance nhs priorities and there are things like mental health provision, social care for the elderly. It's highly frustrating, in a pictucal way.

I don't really understand the hunger stress thing.

It isn't a 'thing', or at least not in terms of bf babies' cortisol levels. The cortisol is present in the milk and ingested by the infant.

As a wider point, if we're setting NHS policy to rights, I'd like to see acknowledgement of combination feeding as a valid option and genuine support for parents who want to do this, rather than the current 'all or nothing'. I'm fully aware of nipple confusion and the potential problems but it's well-established in American studies that in Hispanic communities where combination feeding is the cultural norm, women establish breastfeeding more successfully and babies receive breastmilk for longer.

tinkly I FF on demand using ready sterile bottles and teats for the night feeds (so could have milk ready in 10 seconds) and during the day my DD fed pretty much constantly for the first 3 months so I had a feed on the go at all times (chucked and remade every two hours). I can't remember an occasion where she cried for a feed except when I was trying to BF and she couldn't latch (I know that's a big statement to make but it's genuinely true).

I have never come across a single health professional in the NHS who would advise a mum to breastfeed regardless of babys health. Because their priority is the baby, not the feeding method.

Hmm, their priority is joint in my experience and the mindset is to avoid formula at all costs. I was told to feed every 3 hours and pump every 3 hours alternately 24/7 and top up using what came out of the pump plus formula if needed (which was about 10ml on a good pump). After a couple of totally sleepless days and nights with no improvement the older community midwife came out was and said 'most people have taken the easier way by now' and basically said she thought I was bonkers. She made me smile for the first time in days!

Doctors are less worried about preserving breastfeeding than midwives/ health visitors though. They are more pragmatic - yes, the evidence is when it goes well it is the best thing to breastfeed, but that when it doesn't formula provides sufficient nutrition for the baby to thrive.

infant mortality

In the western world fail to thrive babies usually become part of the formula feeding figures. In the third would they become an infant mortality figure.

third world*

speak I don't think those who FF would necessarily feel attacked. I would welcome a change in policy in relation to breastfeeding education/promotion as it might help things turn out differently for me next time.
I think a lot of FF acknowledge that from an economic point of view and at a population level breast feeding is best in terms of health outcomes.
As it was, I feel secure that I made the right call for my DD given our circumstances at the time but had there been other options presented (such as mixed feeding) it could have turned out differently.
I would welcome better quality support and education on breastfeeding.

I experienced the opposite, where the only suggestion made to me by the health visitor was to top up with formula when my DS1 wasn't gaining as much weight as expected. No advice at all about how to try and increase weight gain through breastfeeding. I had to research for myself, and I totally surprised the HV by managing to increase weight gain whilst also reducing and then stopping formula top ups.

In hospital, with both of my babies, the nurses in SCBU asked me on day 1 if they could use formula if I couldn't express enough volume. I didn't get any real advice on how to express, just shown how to use the equipment and then left to get on with it. I had to read up on it myself. They would have been totally happy to use 100% formula had I decided to stop expressing. At no point did anyone try and persuade or insist that I continue to express and get direct breastfeeding established.

I think personal experience of this can vary wildly.

Hmm, my baby feeding experience predates ready made up (disposable?) bottles of formula (which I imagine is quite pricey and not an option for everyone). Indeed, back in the dark ages, even using a microwave was frowned on for fear of hot spots in the milk.

I dunno, I think the benefits to mothers should be played up more if we are trying to encourage breastfeeding: being able to scoff loads of cake whilst losing weight was the winner for me. And really enjoying my food because I was always quite hungry.

I'd like to see acknowledgement of combination feeding as a valid option and genuine support for parents who want to do this, rather than the current 'all or nothing'.

That's absolutely true.

I know a mum of twins, they are about 9 months now. She has mix fed then from birth and still does. She only managed that by being resolute that she was going to do it like this because she wanted to. Her midwives and HV had been insistent she EBF. If she'd have not had the confidence to just dismiss their "advise", she may well have given up bf completely early on.

Tinkly yep, they are pricey and most likely not an option for everyone. I stumbled across them whilst quickly stocking up on formula as I'd intended to BF.

I'd have preferred to have lost the baby weight breast feeding but as it was the postnatal anxiety sorted mine out pretty quickly!

It's pretty disingenuous to suggest that FF is universally quick and easy thanks to ready-to-feed liquids, when these are prohibitively expensive for many and not an option for some if their baby is on specialist milk.

Cross-post, Beavered!

No worries- not suggesting it is universally an option, just speaking from personal experience.
However, during the day we didn't use the disposable feeds but still always had a bottle on the go so 'hunger stress' wasn't something I ever registered as a potential issue with FF.

When I say 'bottle on the go', my DD fed almost constantly so we never used a feed older than two hours (before the FF safety brigade get in there).

So we have

(a) a Breast is Best policy that tells HCP they can only promote breastfeeding as a feeding method.
(b) HCP having to weigh this against medical need for the baby to get calories if baby's health becomes an issue.

And we have a high level of confusion for HCP as to where the balance between the two should lie.

I'm not surprised by the confusion and the fact individual experiences will differ. There cannot be any consistancy between policies with opposite priorities.

In my view the policy could become something like Breast First. In that breastfreeing should always be the first option. But stop the insistance that it should be the only option.

Then HCP would be freed from only promoting breastfeeding by being able to discuss the pros and cons of both breastfeeding, formula feeding and mixed feeding so that Mums are prepared with realistic expectations.

Totally agree fate.

I think that 'every feed counts' is also an important message so that mums who have chosen to FF might consider giving one or two colustrum and transitional milk feeds full of antibodies without then being pressured to continue if they don't want to.

Breast First would be a much better tactic.

You should start a petition, FATE!

Tinky...takes 2 mins to get a bottle ready if you dont have one on the go. (Have 2.hour window once made and baby not touched it). Bottles are sterlized ready to go and last 24 hours whilst sterlized. I took dd to watch the milk being made. So simple and easy. However as i said before it doesnt matter if the baby is ff or bf as long as its fed and the mother is happy as happy mother means happy baby. Some people get on with breast feeding, some dont, some people get on with ff some dont.

Like fates suggestion breast first!

Yes undoubtedly they do sleep better but bf babies get so much benefit from bm that ff babies won't get and to me that's worth the sacrifice. It all evens out over time and generally they all end up sleeping through whether they are bf or ff. I would rather have the health benefits of bm than the sleep benefits of formula.

Possibly true but before you consider switching think of why this is the case.
It can be the case because formula is harder to digest and therefore brings them into a deeper than natural "sleep/slumber" and could also have an impact on the risk of cot death.
So is it worth it? Up to you to decide.

There is definitely no guarantee that switching will help and once you have switched it will be hard to go back. And if it does work it is not really (in my view) for the right reasons and unless I was really really desperate I cannot imagine wanting to do that for my kids. It is not like formula has something beneficial that breastmilk lacks and which leads to blissful sleep. If anything it is the reverse.

And then think of all the other potential consequences of your choice; much easier to deal with a poorly kid when bf, less instances of sickness and of course all the other consequences of giving formula.

In my own experience my first DD was quite a challenge and would wake up 3-4 times a night until close to 3 years old. Thankfully as she was getting older my husband was able to settle her back to sleep without me... With my second DD I took a different approach and co-slept fully from the get go and I can count on one hand the nights of bad sleep I have had with her. She then moved to her own bed at 2 years old, no problem. Because she slept with me and fed as and when needed she never troubled me much and I had good nights' sleep from the very beginning.