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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To question the Eat Well plate?

306 replies

TheGruffaloMother · 10/01/2017 20:32

I know it can take an age to filter new evidence down into official advice but am really struggling to fathom why the Eat Well plate hasn't yet changed despite everything I keep seeing in the media suggesting we've known for a while now that eating such a high proportion of carbohydrate isn't necessarily healthy. Is high fat the way to go? High protein? Is the official advice wrong? Do the alternatives offer lasting ways to keep your weight under control?

OP posts:
Bobochic · 11/01/2017 12:52

I'm really not convinced that carb-free noodles and pasta are the way forward. We eat pasta regularly in our household - small servings of high quality fresh pasta. I am slim (BMI of 20) and that's because I eat good quality food in reasonable quantities, with a lot of variety.

LineyReborn · 11/01/2017 12:54

GP practice nurse told me to avoid fatty foods like cheese, milk, butter and eat low fat spreads on toast.

Is this not right? I do worry about my calcium intake as I'm at risk of osteoporosis and can't have HRT, and there's only so many sardine and cabbage delights that I can stomach.

PurpleDaisies · 11/01/2017 12:56

GP practice nurse told me to avoid fatty foods like cheese, milk, butter and eat low fat spreads on toast.

For what reason was she giving you this advice?

I hate low fat spreads and would rather have proper butter less often.

FoggyMorn · 11/01/2017 12:57

YANBU, the "eat badly" plate is awful. It's a recipe for metabolic syndromes, t2 diabetes, thyroid problems, obesity etc, even more so for people with any sort of genetic susceptibility to developing those conditions (and that's a very large % of the population).

10 or 11 years ago when I first went low carb, people looked at me like I had 2 heads when I said I'd cut almost all grains and white potatoes from my diet. I was asked quite a lot about what I was eating because I lost over 6 stones. Most people were horrified and said "I could never give up bread" (which is actually what I thought, before I did).

Now low carb/grain free, high fat moderate protein is teetering on the edge of dietary normality! People hardly raise an eyebrow now when I say I eat Lchf/Paleo. It's a revolution driven by people's ability to share their success and experiences on social media. So many people seeing that the official guidelines are flawed and don't work well for their own health or their family's health.

Without trying to sound paranoid, Big Food/Big Agri/Big Pharma are doing their very best to undermine this to protect their own interests (guidelines are by and large pushed/funded by them).
Look at the Noakes trial in SA at the moment, as just one example.

Here in the U.K. Phcuk (public health collaboration, U.K.) is a new group of professionals working to change the guidelines to a much lower carb, real food diet with plenty of natural fats, worth a look at if you are interested (info is free but donations welcome). I have donated a little to them myself.

Other good, sensible sources of information are Marksdailyapple blog, Dietdoctor Lchf blog, robbwolf.com... plenty of science and studies, not just anecdotes (plenty of those too of course!).

badtasteflump · 11/01/2017 12:58

It could be that the GP Practice Nurse is just following the NHS Guidelines!

Bobo I'm not saying it works for everybody - I have never been overweight - my BMI has always been good, but my blood sugar levels were still high, despite exercise and eating a traditionally 'healthy' diet.

The only thing that's lowered my blood sugar (other than medication) is going low-carb.

Bobochic · 11/01/2017 12:59

No one should ever eat low fat spreads. Yes to good quality unpasteurized cheese and milk products! And butter is very good for you in small quantities.

Zarachristmas · 11/01/2017 12:59

I think all the low carb stuff is a bit faddy. Nothing wrong with having pasta sheets in your lasagne, just don't have a plate of garlic bread and chips with it too.

TheGruffaloMother · 11/01/2017 13:00

I have actually been back to the thread but NC last night so have done some accidental sock puppeting Blush sorry!

Just to clarify, by no means am I demonising carbs! Or the NHS.

What I'm getting at is right now the Eat Well plate is gospel as far as the official advice is concerned and I really don't believe it should be. I don't believe it's making people fat, as some people have suggested I've implied. But nor do I believe it's necessarily the only, or even the best, way to go about tackling an existing weight problem.

I personally (yes, I'm obese) find that eating by the Eat Well plate does result in weight loss but also makes me very hungry and preoccupied by food. Whereas if I eat roughly the same amount but with reduced carbohydrate (not low carb) and slightly higher protein and fat, I still lose weight but I feel satiated and am not constantly battling with food cravings. Notice, I'm not talking about processed foods with hidden sugars. I agree that they contribute in no small part to the national obesity problem but they aren't a factor in my diet, even when I'm not focusing on weight loss.

With sincere respect to those of you saying you've eaten by the Eat Well plate and always been slim, you luckily aren't in a position to truly understand the struggle of living by the Eat Well plate as an obese person attempting to address the issue. I'm sure it's not problematic in terms of weight maintenance but I believe weight loss is an entirely different kettle of fish.

OP posts:
NanTheWiser · 11/01/2017 13:00

Dozy, Diabetics are recommended to take exercise, as it does reduce BS, but I couldn't say whether it is enough to reverse it. I don't have diabetes, but a blood test 2 years ago showed that I was on the way to pre-diabetes (which I was unaware of at the time, because blood test was "normal"). But after severe digestive problems in the last few years, I discovered they seemed to be related to carbs (not that I ever ate all that much), and all symptoms went away after I started LCHF last April - with the bonus of weight loss too! Another blood test last May confirmed that I was below the pre-diabetic range, so I'm happy to continue eating this way.

LineyReborn · 11/01/2017 13:02

Hi, Purple. My ? LDL cholesterol is at the high end of normal. But so is my 'protective' HDL.

I do like the nurse, she's lovely, but she does seem to think cheese in particular is the devil's lunch.

And I need calcium. and cheese

FurryLittleTwerp · 11/01/2017 13:03

There are no good or bad foods. Weight for weight, fat has the highest density of calories, followed by carbohydrate & protein.

Portion control is the thing really - we have lost sight of normal portions as plates have become bigger & supersizing is proportionately cheap, so people go for the "good deal" & eat too much. BOGOF is bad for this too, although the government is starting to clamp down on it.

Exercise is important move around more & you can eat more cakes

It is possible to become fat eating just lettuce, if you could chomp your way through enough of it.

eurochick · 11/01/2017 13:03

My view is no food is evil. And food is just fuel/calories.

What you eat plays in to how much you eat, unless you have a will of iron. A 500 cal high carb breakfast will almost certainly have you hungry earlier than a 500 cal high protein breakfast. So unless the carb person is very good at self restraint, they will end up eating more over the course of a day.

Zarachristmas · 11/01/2017 13:05

Gruffalomother the NHS does have a page on different diets including low carb.

www.nhs.uk/Livewell/loseweight/Pages/top-10-most-popular-diets-review.aspx

It seems the consensus is that these diets will make you lose weight but might not be best for overall health.

problembottom · 11/01/2017 13:06

I adore bread, pasta, potatoes and the Atkins diet is my idea of hell. I cook from scratch, eat wholegrain and my BMI is healthy. I don't think everything can be blamed on carbs.

ChardonnayKnickertonSmythe · 11/01/2017 13:09

The diet advice the NHS dishes out is very dated. They recommend low fat speeds and yogurts and margarine.
What they get right though is portion control.

But there is also the snacking culture. There was a thread here recently about snacking in the cinema and it seems many of us can't go thorough a couple of jours without snacking.

ToastDemon · 11/01/2017 13:14

I don't actually agree that there are no bad foods. A lot of the crap sold in the supermarkets shouldn't actually have the title "food". It's full of starches, thickeners and preservatives. Thank God they've removed hydrogenated oils from foods in the UK now but God knows knows how much damage was done first.
And it's this that messes people up. Their health, their ability to listen to their bodies.
A good read on the subject is Michael Pollan's In Defence of Food.
The best way forward for anyone is Cook from scratch and don't buy anything with a long list of ingredients.

PurpleDaisies · 11/01/2017 13:14

liney unfortunately the nurse is right-those foods do put cholesterol up. I love cheese too, so I feel your pain. Soya versions of dairy products are low cholesterol.

Exercise can help your cholesterol balance too.

estateagentfromhell · 11/01/2017 13:16

I think we are allowing ourselves to get sidetracked by the 'tinkering around the edges' approach, (ie the fat/carbs debate) because it is a lot easier for people to make a switch from one approach to the other. Just eating less is a lot harder and therefore people seem desperate to find another way.

The fact is, if everyone ate only their TDEE in calories, irrespective of whether it was carbs or fat (even if that comprised mainly mars bars) they wouldn't be overweight.

In the main, the health benefits of not being overweight vastly outweigh those from eating 'clean' food. I do have to bite my tongue when I see massively overweight individuals fretting about the 'dangers' of low fat spread or a muller lite yoghurt whilst totally ignoring the very obvious, and far more serious problem of their obesity.

Exercising a bit of self control and self discipline will do far more for the nation's health that would the NHS changing its advice. We live in a very impatient, greedy, 'have it all' culture where 'you are worth it'. It is this that is causing the problem and until we address it, no amount of NHS guidance will make a blind bit of difference.

Bobochic · 11/01/2017 13:21

Lots of things masquerading as food are truly evil. And food is so very much more than fuel.

FoggyMorn · 11/01/2017 13:26

Slim doesn't mean healthy.
You can be a slim but if you are eating nothing but low fat "healthy" whole grains and other heavily processed carbs, that's not healthy. 2000 calories of junk a day isn't the same as 2000 calories of natural leafy greens, veg and unprocessed meats, eggs and seafood.

In the long term, the more natural diet is going to mean less illness, fewer medical conditions. It not about the calories.

ToastDemon · 11/01/2017 13:26

I would caution anyone planning to replace real food with soya products, to take a good look at the production methods. They are defatted waste product of soy oil production, treated at high temperatures and chemically washed. Sound like the sort of thing we're actually evolved to consume?

High cholesterol is certainly linked to increased risk of heart disease, but correlation, as any statistician will know, does not prove causation. My understanding of the mechanism is that it's a side effect of damaged arteries, basically the body's attempt to repair the damage.

I won't directly advise anyone to go against the recommendations of their medical professionals, but I will say do you research carefully, and remember that nutrition is a shockingly inexact science and a lot of the research done to date has massive vested interests.

estateagentfromhell · 11/01/2017 13:27

Just reread your last post OP.

I think a big factor that differentiates slim people and obese people is that slim people understand that being hungry and a bit preoccupied with food is a perfectly natural state to be in, one of several that we experience over the course of the day.

I am satisfied (occasionally a bit full) immediately after a meal and maybe for a couple of hours thereafter, for the following 2 hours I am a bit peckish and for the hour or so before my next meal, I am hungry.

This is the way it should be, being hungry is nothing to be afraid of and eating at the first sign of hunger is always going to result in obesity, carbs or no carbs.

specialsubject · 11/01/2017 13:29

too many people flicked their hair through science classes at school, and understanding science is seen as 'geeky'. MN pushes that it is feminine to be thick. So a lot of people fall for the babble.

not all carbs are the same. Guzzle commercial smoothies, sugar laden 'health bars', sugary 'low fat' stuff and you will be the size of a bus. Eat complex carbs in normal portions and proportions and you won't be.

muesli and toast will keep me going until lunchtime. Coco pops wouldn't.

and if you can't even last the journey to work or a two hour movie without a swill or a guzzle - the problem is fairly obvious.

Bobochic · 11/01/2017 13:29

It's true that being a bit hungry is nothing to fear. Snacking/grazing makes controlling your intake very hard indeed.

Maxwellthecat · 11/01/2017 13:30

I eat loads of carbs and I am have never had an issue with my weight. I find carbs extremely filling, but I'm not talking cakes and white bread I'm talking spelt pasta, lentils, potatoes.

The thing is whether you are low fat or low carb you're actually cutting out the same things because a lot of high carb food is high fat too, you used to not be able to have a cake and crisps because of the fat, now it's the carbs. Why you're not eating it is irrelevant, it's the fact you've cut out cake and crisps that's going to make you lose weight.

Eat food, not too much, mostly plants.