To question the Eat Well plate?

[TheGruffaloMother]

I know it can take an age to filter new evidence down into official advice but am really struggling to fathom why the Eat Well plate hasn't yet changed despite everything I keep seeing in the media suggesting we've known for a while now that eating such a high proportion of carbohydrate isn't necessarily healthy. Is high fat the way to go? High protein? Is the official advice wrong? Do the alternatives offer lasting ways to keep your weight under control?

I eat loads of carbs. I'm a size 10. I put on weight when I eat too many cakes & drink too much booze. Sweet milky coffees from Costa etc are also culprits. I probably eat around 1500 calories a day. That's why I'm slim. Not because it's 'easy' as someone said up thread

I think the food industry (industrialised agriculture, manufacturers and retailers) is an absolute scandal. Humans are animals and, to be healthy, our bodies require very complex nourishment from plants and other animals. Much of what is sold in so called food shops has no business being consumed by humans. We have totally lost sight of what quality meals taste and feel like.

Really have you read the book by Kealey on breakfast?

You don't have to be a biochemist to understand the science behind food.

Carbs per se are not bad, but glucose is bad for us if we eat too much. Many cars are refined and combined with sugar. It's not carbs themselves but what they are cooked with- jam or honey on toast, sugar or honey on porridge, sugar in biscuits and cakes.

Carbs are broken down into glucose and is stored as fat, or gives rise to diabetes when someone develops insulin resistance. You don't have to be overweight to develop diabetes.

The argument that eating too much of anything causes weight gain is not entirely true. You could eat nothing but apples all day . You'd not gain much weight as they are mainly water. Your brain though is programmed to like sweet and fatty foods as these store fat which we needed to live off when we didn't eat so often ( catching a woolly mammoth wasn't easy) so we are programmed to gorge on sweet and fatty food (ideally together as in cakes and sweets) .

Breast milk tastes sweet so babies like it. If it tasted like dishwater, the human race would have died out.

We need some carbs every day but we don't need refined carbs WITH sugar AND fat , and we don't need pizzas, with bread, or white rice with stir fries ec etc.

I generally prefer low carb and definitetly things like eggs for breakfast, but the main problem is that it is very unforgiving in that you can't have the odd slice of cake as when trying to lose weight it can set you back for days or more, although I suppose when you have lost the weight and are maintaining, it is more foregiving and a mostly low/lowish carb diet is fine with the odd carby thing.

I definitely feel hungrier if I eat a lot of bread, so try to reduce it. That's another thing - low quality of standard white sliced bread - I think it somehow makes people more hungry not less.

The other thing with low carb is that it makes any kind of 'takeaway eating out' quite difficult as many normal places like fast food, Greggs etc or coffee shops sell very little low carb food.

I travel a lot for work and if trying to actually low carb there are a few things in M&S food etc, but is generally expensive for tiny portions - Pret is good, but there is hardly ever one where I need it. My first choice would be Toby Carvery for meat and veg and a bit of gravy, but they are quite rare too and if I am at a meeting where lunch is provided that is usually totally hopeless as it is always sandwiches, nibbles, crisps and biscuits.

I eat low carb and I don't feel at all deprived. Probably partly because I used to eat a Med diet anyway and low carb is basically that. I could quite happily live on cheese

For me it's the only way of eating that has kept my blood sugar levels stable without medication - which is a huge deal IMO.

Barbara I have to eat 'on the go' a lot too and just had to use my imagination a bit (and google!).

If I need a quick lunch whilst I'm out there are things that are easy enough to grab - prepared salads, babybel cheese, small packs of ham or chicken bits, cherry tomatoes, bags of nuts (some better carb wise than others) and pork scratchings if you can stomach them....

If all else fails and I'm stuck in a meeting with crappy 'nibbles; I just chuck the bread from the sandwiches.

So much pre-prepared food uses low quality raw materials and adds in "flavours" so that the taste is always the same.

Pinkheart, "I never understand the carbs are the worse thing ever attitude that people have at the moment. Sugar is what people should be looking at not sodding potatoes "

Allegedly the body treats all carbs (and other things) as sugar. Try it yourself, eat a high carb meal and see how hungry you are afterwards.
Eat a low carb meal and repeat.

If I low carb, I'm not hungry, one slice of cake or bread or a bar of choc etc and I'm absolutely ravenous soon after. Do what works for you.

Carbs aren't bad. It's portion size that's the problem. When I started watching what I eat I stated weighing all my carb portions and was amazed how mine had crept up over the years.

If I don't eat carbs I get knackered when I do any cardio. They have a role to play in a balanced diet.

I know this is going to sound annoying and and smug, but I lost about a stone in weight and a dress size by cooking from scratch. I went from living off ready meals and takeout to cooking properly from scratch five times a week. Changed no thing else and shed weight. Lost another stone by adding in half an hour of doing something every day whether swimming or jogging or whatever. Third stone went when I cut out snacking.

I eat carbs all the time, I am not starving and few would accuse me of excessive self discipline. I think processed food is full of crap, and I think we are pushed by marketing etc into very sedentary lifestyles. Rice and spuds are not the issue.

Because at some point in the 80's the food industry diverted blame for rising obesity onto fat and calorific intake, when the real culture is sugar and carbs. You expect this from people invested in Macdonald's, but the WHO have got no excuse.

My sister in law, who did have something of a weight issue, has been on the paleo diet for six weeks and the weight has fallen off her. And she hasn't reduced her intake of food at all.

blank that is definitely true, at least in my case. My blood sugar levels don't care if I've just eaten potatoes or a piece of cake - it all has the same effect, unfortunately

Don't really have a clue what I'm talking about, but I've been reading a lot about or microbiomes which vary person to person so different people are affected by different diets,lots of new research coming in this area soon I think - it's really interesting

Thanks flump. I do sometimes try to get the 'packet of ham, packet of sliced cheese, cherry tomatoes and bag of leaves' from the supermarket thing, but my problem is that I much prefer hot food and find cold food quite unpalatable and unsatisfying, especially if fridge cold which is why I would have a Toby Carvery if available - you can be in and out in 20 minutes if you have to be.

I've had McDonalds cheeseburgers without buns before, or chicken from the chicken counter, but that's quite hard to eat in the car without making a mess.

I know I can't have everything and need to make do with what is available - it's just frustrating that what is available isn't really what I want to eat.

I know this is going to sound annoying and and smug, but I lost about a stone in weight and a dress size by cooking from scratch.

Why would it sound smug? Doesn't everyone know that cooking (sensible things) from scratch means less fat, salt, sugar, additives etc... If you're cooking fried chicken, macaroni cheese etc from scratch you won't lose weight.

Purple eating no carbs at all would make anybody feel crap if they tried to exercise. The ideal for me is to keep my carb intake low, not trying to cut them out completely.

While the Eat Well guide is fine for healthy people with a normal metabolism, it's not fine for those who have insulin resistance, and most people have no idea whether they are insulin resistant unless they have the HbA1C blood test (which is why there is a Diabetes time-bomb waiting to explode). As we age, our metabolism doesn't work as efficiently, and we gradually become insulin resistant, as I have found at the age of 70.
Carbs are carbs are carbs, and ALL carbs turn to glucose in our blood, regardless of whether they are "good" carbs or not - your pancreas doesn't distinguish where those carbs come from, and while the "good" carbs will be metabolised at a slower rate than the "bad" carbs, they will still raise blood sugar to high levels.
A quick look at the Diabetes forums will show that LCHF eating works really well to lower blood sugar, and bring diabetics to "normal" levels of BS, in effect reversing diabetes, although they will never be cured. Therefore, many sufferers are following this way of eating, and are able to come of medication, and are full of praise for this way of eating.
There is now much more exposure in the media about low carbing, and maybe the NHS will eventually recognise the importance of cutting carbs, and revise their advice.
After all, before Man started farming 10,000 years ago, he didn't eat much in the way of grains, and there was no bread or potatoes - he lived as a hunter-gatherer, and there are some populations in the world that still eat mainly meat, and very little in the way of carbs. It's not unhealthy, some people have been eating low carb for years with no adverse effects on their health.

We eat pretty much an Eatwell Plate type diet , with carbohydrate breakfasts. Our portion sizes are in line with guidelines (e.g. 70g meat, not e.g. a whole chicken breast per person). Yes, we eat some sweet stuff - no puddings at any meal, but a biscuit or cake for tea.

We are all fine, weight wise, and energy wise.

Yes, i can see that if you eat 2 or 3x the recommended amount of meat in a meal, then you shouldn't also eat the recommended amount of carbs - because the meat will already have given you more than enough calories - and not eating the carbs will help you to lose weight because you're not eating as many calories. On the other hand, if we eat normal portions of meat, then there are plenty of calories left over to 'spend' on a standard portion of carbs as well...

I find restaurant etc meals very hard to eat, both because of the portion sizes and the 'richness' of much of the food - additional cream, sugar, fat, sauces.

I genuinely don't think that the BALANCE of the Eatwell plate is a problem. It is the size of the plate onto which people heap their portions that is the problem.

ACubed - what have you read? Books? Articles? Interested myself in my microbiome.

The issue with carbs is they are usually combined with sugar.
If you stick to a small portion of brown rice, wholewheat pasta or plain oats, fine. A portion is a fist size- not half a large plate.

But for many people carbs are refined and mixed with sugar.

The body doesn't see any difference between glucose whether it's from porridge oats or cornflakes. But porridge gives you fibre and minerals and fills you up more for longer, so you might not snack so much afterwards.

Most breakfast cereals are 25-35% sugar- so carbs with sugar. You get a quick hit of glucose and sucrose, feel hungry soon afterwards, and snack on more refined carbs and sugar.

Reading what posters eat on here is an eyeopener a times! They say they don't eat much but have crisps with a sandwich. Or a bag of nuts as well as a sandwich. And a yoghurt with 3 teaspoons of sugar in it.

I'm quite full after having a handful of nuts and a piece of fruit for a quick lunch, not as extras on top of other things.

Most people just eat too much. End of!

ACubed - I read Tim Spector's book The Diet Myth recently, and last year I read Giulia Enders' book Gut. I found both absolutely fascinating and they shed light on many of my own past health issues, now largely resolved by my own trial and error approach which is in fact totally consistent with both authors.

Barbara I agree, there is a lack of good 'instant' low carb food. But I do think the world is starting to catch up slowly. I noticed in the Co-op recently they had 'protein pots' next to the sandwiches with boiled eggs and spinach and stuff in.

And lots of supermarkets now stock carb free alternatives to things - eg Sainsburys have butternut squash lasagne sheets, and zero carb noodles and rice (the dragons den stuff!). And most supermarkets do zoodles (ready spiralised courgettes) etc....

Nan what is your view on the role of exercise and diabetes? My understanding is that exercise can prevent and reverse it, as well as reducing sugar.
My mum was told she was pre-diabetes in her late 80s- not overweight at all- but she'd cut down on her walking (lost confidence after a slight stroke.) She's since gone back to walking and reduced sugar more, and seems ok.

Surely the point is that there are lots of ways of losing weight, and most of the non-crazy ones (reduce portion size, reduce carbs, reduce sugar, reduce fat, do lots of exercise in combination with one of these) work if you stick to them. Pick the one that suits you best. We can quibble all we like about which method has the edge in terms of health, but they'll all make you lose weight if you actually stick to them. But people don't, because it's hard when you are surrounded by huge quantities of easily-accessible and tempting food. That's not the NHS' fault and it's not going to change (barring huge natural distasters causing food shortages).

The NHS probably should change its Eat Well plate, but I doubt that will actually have that much effect on obesity.

Exactly. Lots of people say 'well I lost weight by counting carbs'
That's fine but it's the counting that helped, because the mindless eating was the problem.