To question the Eat Well plate?

[TheGruffaloMother]

I know it can take an age to filter new evidence down into official advice but am really struggling to fathom why the Eat Well plate hasn't yet changed despite everything I keep seeing in the media suggesting we've known for a while now that eating such a high proportion of carbohydrate isn't necessarily healthy. Is high fat the way to go? High protein? Is the official advice wrong? Do the alternatives offer lasting ways to keep your weight under control?

Never mind that the whole reason I put on weight is because I got ill - when I was thin?!!?!

Hang on, surely there's a difference between being slim and living on fags, mars bars and Diet Coke. Being slim and having bowl of porridge and a jacket potato, along with meat, fruit and veg. Then eating low carb.

Where's the evidence to say the slim person who eats porridge is unhealthy?

If YOU don't get full from porridge and prefer eggs then you can have them.

It really is not about the calories. It's about the nutritional value of the foods making up those 2000 calories, and the effect those food have on metabolism.

You are entitled to this opinion, but it is bullshit not evidence-based.

My observation, I work with 40 people. Only five of us go for a short walk every lunchtime come rain or shine and we're the slimmest ones there. Everyone bar me drives in. Humans aren't designed to sit on backsides for ten hours a day. That's what's killing us.

PurpleDaisies - I've had a lot of people say it's unhelpful and smug to just say 'I lost weight by cooking from scratch' because dieting is much harder work than that etc etc, so I was being apologetic.

I mean, I do also think it's more complicated than that in that I think we tend to project a lot and assume that everyone is overweight/obese for the same reason (whatever it is) and that one magic bullet works for everyone. It doesn't. I mean, I've lost significant amounts of weight three times in my life. It was hugely different each time, because the weight gain came from different things. We all need to find a different way of maintaining physical and mental wellbeing that works for us.

Gruffalo we live in a hugely obesogenic environment. Anyone lucky enough to stay slim and healthy with little effort could do with being considerably less smug about it.

Everybody feels hungry, it's not just obese people. I think rebranding hunger as 'craving' and 'greed' as binge eating disorder is really unhelpful.

I don't feel hungry when I eat healthily.

We can't eat what we want, when we want. That's just life. If you do, you will be obese - it's really quite simple.

That's a generalisation and doesn't apply to me or I expect to many others.

I would encourage any dieter to look at the nutritional value of the food they're eating in terms of vitamins and minerals, adjust to suit your taste and see how you get on. Omega 3 fats are great, Omega 6 not so much. There's a ton of online information out there.

FoggyMorn It is all about the calories, unless some people have bodies which ignore the laws of thermodynamics. And yes, there may be some evidence that eating some foods keep you fuller for longer, but there are no magic combinations of foodstuffs that will mean you can eat breakfast at 7:30 and feel nary a hunger pang until 12:30, at which point you can somehow magically eat a perfect lunch. Ultimately, a lot of it does come down to will power and the ability to make healthful choices.

The malnutrition (if there is any, given the levels of fortification in today's foods) brought about by eating 2000 calories of junk food is probably a less serious problem (and a problem more easily remedied) than the known, proven and significant long-term effects that would arise from becoming obese on eating too many calories from healthier foodstuffs.

Precisely the kind of attitude that I don't normally engage with because it completely lacks empathy and any real kind of understanding. So forgive me if I don't respond to any more of the 'motivational' fat shaming.

Plus, if we're being all evidence based around it, there's a load of evidence that suggests that fat shaming has zero success in terms of motivating anyone to lose weight, and, in fact, does the reverse.

Anyone lucky enough to stay slim and healthy with little effort could do with being considerably less smug about it

This is the whole point, slim people do make an effort. It's just one of delayed gratification. I prefer not to eat a cupcake right now because that means I am less likely to gain weight in the long term. The thing you are missing is the fact that I really do want to eat that cupcake, I just choose not to.

I hate exercise, I hate going swimming when its cold, I really really hate cycling to work as I get wet and miserable. I still do it though, because I don't want to get fat.

It's up to you whether or not you choose to do the same, but don't labour under the misapprehension that it is somehow 'easy' or 'lucky'

FFS

And what about people who cant do the cycling or swimming? Could you perhaps acknowledge that it would be a bit harder for them than you?

Look, I do see that I'm not winning hearts and minds on this thread. I really want to feel sympathy for anybody struggling with their weight, but the collective denial, self-delusion and worrying about the wrong thing is the main problem here - It's painful to watch to be honest.

Just eating less food really is the answer. For the time you are losing the weight, it will be unpleasant, there's no getting away from that. It will be worth it in the long run though.

Good luck

estateagent you're making assumptions here.
I'm a normal weight, I exercise a lot and I eat in a way I think is very healthy, inasmuch as anyone can be certain as to what constitutes healthy given the plethora of conflicting information out there - one only needs to see this thread as an illustration.
But that doesn't mean I lack the empathy to realise just how hard it is, that people's biochemistry, educational levels, attitude towards food, potential medication side effects are all created equal. They are not. Therefore I'm lucky. Lucky I'm healthy enough to be able to exercise, lucky I'm educated enough to make decent food choices and affluent enough to be able to afford them.

I had one period in my life when I put on a lot of weight due to medication. And I was absolutely helpless in the face of it. I could no more have controlled the weight gain than I could have held back the tide.
That has given me a lot of empathy and understanding towards other people's struggles with weight.

Also as I've stated above. Our environment is obesogenic, large corporations are growing their profits on the basis of changing our culture to eat more processed foods, and more of them. Yes there's of course an element of individual choice in that but it's certainly not made easy. In terms of our biochemistry, we are cavemen suddenly confronted by the foods we are programmed to eat in large quantities because they are so scare. But now they're not scarce - they are everywhere and there's a massive advertising industry telling us to eat them.
As an extra kicker, they are engineered to completely mess with our ability to tell if we've eaten too much of them.
Some people are more immune to this environment than others.
Yes of course they are the lucky ones.

Above should read, are not all created equal.

This is the whole point, slim people do make an effort.

So all slim people do make an effort and no overweight people do? No consideration to the likelihood that obese people would probably need to put in far more effort than you do? Or that there are many people who really are effortlessly slim? Or that hunger may be a bigger psychological strain on an obese person than it is for you? Or that cravings may be more frequent and less avoidable for some than others? And you're under the impression that you have an informed view of obesity?

Just eating less food really is the answer. For the time you are losing the weight, it will be unpleasant, there's no getting away from that. It will be worth it in the long run though.

Simply eating less food is only part of the answer. There's got to be a change in long term eating habits (and exercise if possible) or the weight will just go straight back on again.

That may be true gruffalo, but ultimately, you are the only person who can do anything about it.

I wish there were a magic wand, but there isn't.

BTW, this is an interesting thread giving the views of diabetics on hospital food (Eat Well plate) - www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/hospital-menu-for-diabetic-person.113763/ a bit long, but rather informative.

Theres nothing at all wrong with carbs as part of a healthy balanced diet. Sugar is the enemy, not necessarily carbs.

Theres plenty of information out there on losing weight. Most people lack the drive to seek it out or the willpower to follow it. That's not the nhs fault.

I think there is a distinction between the NHS recommending their eat well plate in general and to lose weight vs recommending a very carb laden diet to diabetics

That may be true gruffalo, but ultimately, you are the only person who can do anything about it.

Who said otherwise?

Dozy.....complex carbohydrates are not always combined with sugar that's rubbish. Refined carbs are not advised by the NHS but unrefined.

You don't get insulin spikes or dips with complex carbs, that's the whole point of recommending them. And bacon is carcinogenic according to some research along with sausages (taken with pinch of salt but I wouldn't put them high on my diet).

If OP and various posters with axes to grind have had weight issues maybe they should have been eating the eatwell plate and reading the guide far sooner? I've never been overweight and it does reflect my overall eating habits. And porridge and fruit is not boring, it's delicious.

And porridge and fruit is not boring, it's delicious

I hate porridge and my dentist tells me off for eating fruit. You can't pronounce that porridge and fruit "is not boring". That's totally subjective.

I've always been slim because I've watched what I eat, and I'm sorry obese people but you are obese because you consume too many calories. Lots of reasons why! but ultimately that's the truth of the matter

That's really smug Olympia.