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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think we are all just accepting the state of the NHS?

212 replies

MerryMarigold · 08/01/2017 16:08

I've seen so many threads on AIBU just in the last couple of days where people are just accepting the state of the NHS and finding ways around the lack of funding and scant resources.

I've filled in questionnaires and petitions. I share things on Facebook supporting Doctors/ Nurses and NHS. I vote Labour (whether that really helps I don't know).

I just don't know what else to do. It is ridiculous now and we're all just accepting it. I am dreading my parents old age (they are already past 70).

What can I do? What can we do?

OP posts:
WhenSheWasBadSheWasHorrid · 09/01/2017 10:18

Rationing is happening and maybe it should. Would be interesting if more middle class stuff was rationed.

Broke your leg skiing - tough
Horse riding injury - your own fault
Rugby injury - tough get insurance

brasty · 09/01/2017 10:23

Social care has been drastically cut. If you cut social care, you inevitably have more older people in hospital who do not need to be there any more, but are just waiting for a place in a care home.

LolaTheDarkdestroyer · 09/01/2017 10:24

Yet immigration isn't a problem on Mumsnet.

brasty · 09/01/2017 10:26

And Circle who managed the first private NHS hospital and made a mess of it, complained that beds were taken up with social care patients. It is a real issue, but the Government does not care. So hospitals just have to cope. Because they can't discharge them if there is no one to care for them. Added to that just a generation ago most of these older people would have been looked after by a female relative. Those female relatives now work full time.

GraceGrape · 09/01/2017 10:27

I agree with many of the points made on here:

  1. Income tax: Yes, it needs to be raised. Successive parties have lived in fear of doing this, despite the fact that we have quite low levels of income tax compared to other countries. I have lived in other European countries - you pay more tax but the standard of public services is hugely better and public transport is cheaper because it is subsidised. The same goes for childcare. You can see a GP whenever you want (although there is generally also some form of health insurance.)

  2. Government policy: Yup, it's all deliberate. There are an extraordinary number of independently wealthy Tory MPs in power at the moment for whom healthcare is an issue that will never affect them personally. Therefore they are looking at it from a profitability point of view. It will suit them to run the service down until they can privatise it.

  3. Elderly population: It's not agist, it's a fact. People have spoken against Euthansia on here, but quite frankly I'm praying it's an option by the time I'm old. I do not want to be living into my 90s or beyond once my body or mind are not capable of living a full life. I would happily accept some form of Euthanasia rather than depend on my children to look after me. Either that, or I hope we have totally rethought social care by then, which can only go back to the original point about income tax.

brasty · 09/01/2017 10:28

Immigration involves mainly fit young men. The NHS cares mainly for children and elderly people.

Original poster
MerryMarigold · 09/01/2017 10:30

But I certainly don't think money should be directed to me when my body fucks up rather than to someone that hasn't caused their body any harm through their choice of lifestyle.

I think you're probably very rare, but even if there are other alcoholics who feel the same, it is probably more a sign of depression than 'fairness'.

I can't imagine someone who's a climber or a tennis player, and gets hurt saying, "Well it's my lifestyle choice so I shouldn't have NHS treatment." So many lifestyle choices contain health risks. What about having babies??

OP posts:
NathanBarleyrocks · 09/01/2017 10:37

I'm surprised health tourism hasn't been mentioned. I know it is just a drop in the ocean but it still exists. DH needed treatment in an EU country last year & despite having his E111 form, still had to fork out a few hundred quid to get the treatment he needed. How anyone gets treated here without the relevant documentation/insurance is beyond me.

brasty · 09/01/2017 10:39

Having babies is very costly if you have private medicine. And if you have a premature baby the costs the costs are off the scale.
Lots of people with mental health problems live worse lifestyles. People with szichophrenia are more likely to smoke and eat an unhealthy diet. People talk as if everything we do that is bad for our health is an active choice, when some people are actually just struggling to get through life with the issues they already have.

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 09/01/2017 10:40

NathanBarleyrocks

most addicts, smokers etc. die younger anyway. so the chances of you lingering in a care home aged 90 are pretty slim, and thanks fucking god for that!

Yet immigration isn't a problem on Mumsnet

its true, I don't think anyone can deny how the massive surge of immigration in the past decade has affected the NHS. How can it not? An immigramt family with parents working but who have 2-3 kids are always going to use more services than the tax they pay surely? 2 x births, natal care, education? I don't know the economics

NathanBarleyrocks · 09/01/2017 10:42

MerryMarigold. I didn't say I wouldn't accept treatment. Same as the sickos that don't want to be an organ donor but would happily take an organ if they ever needed one.

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 09/01/2017 10:42

Nathan, I did not mean that I want you to die young there! I hope that made sense. I smoke and am trying to give up, but I swear to god I want to die closer to 70 than 90 due to to the fact (a) I wont have any money and (b) healthcare is fucked

brasty · 09/01/2017 10:45

It is generally older people and children who use the most NHS resources. If you die from a heart attack in your mid 50s, you actually won't be that costly. If you live till your late 90s with dementia for 15 years, you will be very costly to the NHS and social care.
And people with serious mental health problems can be costly. Have recurring psychosis meaning that you need to be sectioned in mental health wards and have home visits from the Crisis team? You will cost a lot and are very unlikely to be working.

Sometimes I think some on MN would be happier if all those inconvenient ill and disabled people were just put to sleep.

havingabadhairday · 09/01/2017 10:51

TalkinPeace You can pull faces at my comment, but when the Lincolnshire Jobcentres tried to get Brits to go and pick brassicas they could not find enough young and able bodied folks on the dole to do the work.

Most people signing on are unemployed for a short period, so presumably those who were young, fit and healthy found other work.

hefzi Tories are currently spending more on the NHS budget than any previous government

Means nothing if at the same time social care is being slashed.

TheNaze73 We also need to review giving free prescriptions out

Free prescriptions for who? The idea behind free prescriptions in Wales is that by catching things early/making sure people can afford to take medication for chronic conditions you can prevent people needing more expensive treatments later on. A stay in hospital is a lot more expensive.

Graphista · 09/01/2017 10:52

I'm afraid I agree on the non necessities. It needn't be applied to emergency situations but can certainly be applied to

the aforementioned purely aesthetic cosmetic surgery,

Ivf (and I struggled to become a mother too)

conditions directly caused by a lifestyle choice where the patient WON'T engage to change that lifestyle (smoking, excessive drinking, use of illegal drugs, extreme obesity etc)

There are not infinite resources or infinite money.

I think I had also said on another similar thread a while ago that the nhs should be removed from partisan overseeing. It results in unnecessary changes being made every time we get a new cabinet! Not even each general election but every bloody time there's a reshuffle!

There should be more money put in BUT we need people administrating who actually know what they're doing!

brasty · 09/01/2017 10:54

So alcoholics should not get any treatment then?

brasty · 09/01/2017 10:56

I actually agree that IVF should not be funded through the NHS.

Graphista · 09/01/2017 10:58

There's a difference between someone who chooses to drink more than is healthy and an addict. An addict CAN'T without a lot of help engage in addressing the problem but someone who just CHOOSES to drink more than is healthy without yet being an addict can reasonably be expected to change their behaviour in my opinion.

havingabadhairday · 09/01/2017 11:00

Nor should treatment for many self-inflicted illnesses

How do we decide what is self-inflicted? Addiction can be caused by self-medicating mental illness. Does self-harm count? Eating disorders?

What about lung cancer if you live in a high-radon area and didn't have your house tested? What if you pay for prescriptions but can't afford them and your condition worsens?

A lot of things could be viewed as self-inflicted if the incentive was there.

havingabadhairday · 09/01/2017 11:03

the aforementioned purely aesthetic cosmetic surgery,

How often does this actually happen? And I don't want examples from the tabloid press.

I know someone who needs what could be viewed as 'purely aesthetic cosmetic surgery' and probably would be reported that way if The Sun got hold of the story. Fact is she needs it for physical and mental health reasons.

NathanBarleyrocks · 09/01/2017 11:04

Havingabadhairday Very good points. Also, you never hear people with anorexia referred to with the same mocking contempt that you hear levelled at people with obesity. Both are eating disorders. Just opposite ends of the scale.

Weebleswobbles · 09/01/2017 11:05

Talkinpeace - completely agree with you, I have just emailed my MP

Purplebluebird · 09/01/2017 11:26

This makes me so depressed :( I fear I one day won't be able to afford my hugely important medications. I don't know what we can do, I just am hugely worried for the future.

havingabadhairday · 09/01/2017 11:56

NathanBarleyrocks I included eating disorders because I have actually read people argue that it is self-inflicted! I assume they are people who don't understand what anorexia is....

MichaelSheensNextDW · 09/01/2017 12:42

It's ethically and legally impossible to impose restrictions on so-called lifestyle induced problems. Eg someone smokes and is diagnosed with asthma, COPD and has frequent chest infections as a result. There is no way of distinguishing between damage caused by vehicle pollution or the smoking habit. And are you really expecting healthcare professionals with a legally enshrined duty of care that goes with their professional regulated status to deny a sick person treatment? Are you really advocating that people with no money to afford a chest xray and a couple of courses of antibiotics are actually left to die? Words fail me.