To think we are all just accepting the state of the NHS?

[MerryMarigold]

I've seen so many threads on AIBU just in the last couple of days where people are just accepting the state of the NHS and finding ways around the lack of funding and scant resources.

I've filled in questionnaires and petitions. I share things on Facebook supporting Doctors/ Nurses and NHS. I vote Labour (whether that really helps I don't know).

I just don't know what else to do. It is ridiculous now and we're all just accepting it. I am dreading my parents old age (they are already past 70).

What can I do? What can we do?

More tax is the only way to fix it. I can't see many people calling for that so what do you do?

Panic not people. Brexit is on its way. Don't any of you remember that fucking bus?

There are little things we can all do:

Don't use minor ailments scheme unless you absolutely need to which means Buying over the counter drugs like paracetamol, ibuprofen, calpol, decongestant, nit treatment etc if you can afford to do so. (I am aware that some people need paracetamol or ibuprofen in quantities that it wouldn't be practical to buy at 2 packs a day. I'm not talking about that I mean go buy some calpol instead of taking a gp appointment and getting a script if your kid is teething)

Don't over order medications so you end
Up with a stockpile. Sometimes the chemist asks a few days before they need to or your doctors appointment is a couple Of days before your repeat is normally due. The extras can build up quickly. Keep an eye on them to ensure you aren't sitting on more than enough to last a few days past your next renewal.

Fill in questionnaires and sign petitions.

Show your support to NHS staff by treating them with respect and courtesy even if your doctor is running late. Lots of late running is due to doctors being forced to take on more than they should in any given day.

Educate yourself re nhs services in your area so you know where to go be it gp, walk in, pharmacy or a&e.

Use NHS direct if you are unsure as to where you need to go.

Use appointments wisely.

Cancel an appointment if you no longer need it.

If everyone did these things it would honestly make a massive difference. The amount of
People who don't is staggering.

I missed the 70 years part, sorry. It feels like that's been forgotten every time it's mentioned in the media. The government will have to reduce the cost of the visa if they want their strawberries at Wimbledon then!

Students also did some of the seasonal agricultural picking - strawberries in particular - and prior to WTC in particular, lots of seasonal flower picking was done by local women: now, if they want to, it fucks up the system and they end up out of pocket as well- so that's mainly done by Eastern Europeans too. The problem with fruit and veg, we as a nation have become used to paying below - cost: we squeeze the farmers, farmers squeeze the labourers, and for us to have year round strawberries, say, for three quid a punnet, someone, somewhere is being exploited. I was reading a paper the other day that was talking about changes in spending: in the 60s, apparently food accounted for 70% spend on the average salary (even with people eating out far less, and takeaways very rare)

Like others have said, we can't continue to pay for everything, for ever body- and tbf, the NHS wasn't conceived for some modern issues (such as ear lobe reconstruction after piercing, say which is apparently the commonest form of plastic surgery paid for by the NHS): but if we want it to do that, and everything else, it has to be paid for - through taxation.

Stop the population rising

Isn't culling pensioners a bit extreme? It would solve the problem, but it's not really a workable option, is it?

I think if we want a better health service for us all we have to change the NHS so we have a two tier system. It would no longer be the NHS it would be a free at point of service it just isn't sustainable and has barely been for a long time

We can sigh as many petitions as we want go on as many marches but what about really supporting each other and not becuase the money isn't there the vast majority of us can do something within the community to help

Or we start paying a lot more tax but there isn't a party that will raise tax by that much as it is not a vote winner even for the NHS and then there is tbe issue of many people simply not being able to afford to pay more tax

I've stood out in the rain and hail, protesting.
The government isn't willing to listen because it wants to privatise healthcare.
We don't really live in a democracy

Rafa think of the savings on the social security budget, though

In fact, there are a few threads popping up in active at the moment which demonstrate the huge demands on the NHS.

There are lots of very genuine demands on the NHS, but there are also a lot of unnecessary ones. I would agree with a PP and suggest a 2 teir system and charge for certain appointments and treatments.

I don't imagine anyone wants to see euthanasia, but if it's true that senior folk are the biggest drain on the NHS then maybe some hard decisions need to be made and a wider view taken

A 92 year old relative's in hospital with cancer and much else. Basically she's just worn out, bless her, and is emphatic that all she wants is "to go". But no ... each fresh problem apparently has to be treated because "those are the guidelines and she's not considered terminal yet". So on she goes against her will, no doubt blocking a bed and contributing to problems in a world she no longer wants any part of

Nobody pretends this is easy, but just because something can be treated doesn't necessarily mean that it should be

I suppose it might sort the social care issue too.

There are definitely things that could be done inside the NHS that would increase efficiency in the long term, unfortunately many of those things are going to need an upfront cash injection to get new systems into place. It's a bit of a catch-22.

Stitchfusion, the definition of democracy is a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives

Thankfully we do live in one, and you saying otherwise is insulting and ridiculous.

I agree the Tories are the badies isn't useful

Under the last labour government though more money was put in they also allowed an increase of private business to run parts of the NHS

I don't think any government has had choice other than to do this to keep it afloat

I think a big part of the problem with the NHS is that it's trying to do too much. I saw a report yesterday bemoaning the fact that hospitals were discharging patients with too little consideration of their situation at home, and gave the example of a woman who'd been sent home "when there was no food in her fridge"!

WTAF? How would a doctor know what was in a patient's fridge, and why should they care? If someone's been hospitalised for weeks their fridge will inevitably have no edible fresh food. They will have to refill it, or if they can't their family/friends/neighbours should help.

Sure, there will be a few cases where a safety net is needed for those who have nobody to help, but the NHS is not this safety net. It needs to be provided by council social care services. The underfunding of these services is a national disgrace, and makes the NHS look like a showroom-condition Rolls-Royce, but it attracts less attention because most people on mumsnet don't make use of them.

we should boot everyone out over 65

Fitzsimmons

Over 65s have paid into the system their whole lives

They have earned their healthcare

They have paid upfront

Immigrants have not

We already have a two tier system - those that get subsidised private health care through their jobs and those that don't.

Government should give tax relief if you pay for private medical insurance.

Put up taxes - of perhaps start collecting the tax that should be paid. If you are PAYE we are squeezed and squeezed - I will pay more taxes if I see corporation tax being paid by Amazon etc and the Lords of Xxx paying proper tax rather than getting relief because they allow the public to look round their house once a year.

I'm sure the working and middle classes are the only ones paying full and correct tax in the UK. Rant over.

""Dame Kate Barker says that a rising population is causing strain on services""

""If we do not curb the rising population, the NHS will fail""

Or the NHS could be funded so it can cover the needs of the rising population.

In the 80's the Torys had a lot of people that we couldn't afford to run our Country, so cuts were needed.

We know now that no savings were made, all we had was people plunged into poverty and a creation of deprivation.

Council run Care Homes were underfunded and so they "had" to be put under the private sector.

They've done similar with the Prisons, which isn't working.

These situations are created, to suit an agenda.

Morethanus, when a large pproportion, such as 98% of a population of NHS staff, tell the government that their plans are unworkable, and the government pushes ahead with them anyways, then I think I am correct in saying that the elected representatives are not listening to the people they are supposed to be representing.
So, from the evidence I see, we do not live in a democracy of the people by the people.

Also, the NHS does not need to become more efficient. It is already one of the most efficient health care systems in existence, achieving better outcomes than other systems that cost several times as much (USA, I'm looking at you).

It is always possible to point to inefficiencies in the NHS, but this is because it is a vast organisation.

What the NHS needs is more money, and we can afford this. We are still a relatively wealthy nation, and spend less of our GDP on health care than other, comparable countries.

No we do not have a two tier system that's a choice people make some companies offer packages with work contracts but for the vast majority of people private health care is not considered becuase of the costs

And private health doesn't cover complete care so no tax relief shouldn't be given as the service is there if you need it

I think if we want a better health service for us all we have to change the NHS so we have a two tier system.

Separating people even more into the 'haves' and 'have nots'

Government should give tax relief if you pay for private medical insurance.

Private patients often end up in NHS beds, and there is no private Accident and Emergency or ambulance service. Many operations dont take place in private hospitals.
So no. Make the choice and live with the consequences.

And that is the crux of the issue.

The underfunding in social care means that there are people in hospitals who don't need to be there but can't be discharged, which means that patients that need to be admitted from A&E can't be moved on, which means ambulances end up queuing outside and can't be used to answer emergency calls.

And it won't get better until this is sorted. Focusing on inappropriate use is a bit like Nero fiddling while Rome burns.

Increasing he basic rate of tax to 23% would provide the funds needed without impacting on the poorest 45% of society

However it would affect the JAMS pushing some of those into poverty, or meaning in families maybe giving up work due to increased taxes and childcare costs meaning working is no longer feasible.

I know of people strugging with this now. Increased taxes would be the last straw and they would quit working.