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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think we are all just accepting the state of the NHS?

212 replies

MerryMarigold · 08/01/2017 16:08

I've seen so many threads on AIBU just in the last couple of days where people are just accepting the state of the NHS and finding ways around the lack of funding and scant resources.

I've filled in questionnaires and petitions. I share things on Facebook supporting Doctors/ Nurses and NHS. I vote Labour (whether that really helps I don't know).

I just don't know what else to do. It is ridiculous now and we're all just accepting it. I am dreading my parents old age (they are already past 70).

What can I do? What can we do?

OP posts:
Puzzledandpissedoff · 08/01/2017 19:53

Over 65s have paid into the system their whole lives

Not necessarily; if you consider very elderly women, who occupy beds in huge numbers, you may well find that many never worked/paid taxes at all, except perhaps for just a few years before marriage and children

Please don't get me wrong - I'm certainly not suggesting this in itself means they should be denied care, only that it's worth remembering the real situation

BabyHamster · 08/01/2017 19:53

Be willing to pay more tax. We pay so little in the UK. I realise that's only one side of the equation and how it's actually spent is out of our control. But we have to accept our part of the deal.

Even though I'm entitled to free prescriptions and appointments (dental care etc), I pay for them if I can.

A drop in the ocean really, but I think it's important to recognise there's a difference between taking what you need and taking what you're entitled to. I'd like my children to learn that from me.

empirerecordsrocked · 08/01/2017 20:20

There's a huge number of people that don't use the NHS. I have private healthcare - but to see a consultant I have to go to the gp and get a referral letter. What a waste of time / money. I should be able to self refer to the private healthcare and they decide what to do with me, why is the gp even involved?

cherrycrumblecustard · 08/01/2017 20:25

I fully recognise that the elderly are the biggest drain on the NHS. The point is that if we have large families AND live longer AND have quite high levels of immigration, these things combined will ensure the problem won't go away.

Wellitwouldbenice · 08/01/2017 20:29

Serious question. Those who voted Brexit, do you still think that the NHS will be better funded and improve as a consequence?

DeeCrepid · 08/01/2017 20:36

If you Google PFI and the NHS it gives a clear indication of the direction the NHS budget is going. Thank you Labour

WhenSheWasBadSheWasHorrid · 08/01/2017 20:36

However it would affect the JAMS pushing some of those into poverty, or meaning in families maybe giving up work due to increased taxes and childcare costs meaning working is no longer feasible

I don't doubt it would be really hard for some families. If there was some way to do it whilst improving childcare costs that would be ideal (although it would of course be another cost).

I'm not sure exactly how much a household need to earn before they are a net contributor - but it's really high, around £35,000. That doesn't seem sustainable.

And when the big earners in the city leave and stop paying high levels of tax we really will be in the shit.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 08/01/2017 20:39

It's a bit more complicated than that cherry. If your birth rate falls below the level needed to maintain, then you get a population that is top heavy in terms of age. Those are the people who tend not to be paying into the system currently, but are using it most. You end up with a greater demand on services but less income being generated by tax.

At this point there are usually two options. You either encourage people to have more children or increase net migration.

user1471545174 · 08/01/2017 20:46

Usual ageist shit being trotted out without moderation.

Original poster
MerryMarigold · 08/01/2017 20:48

such as ear lobe reconstruction after piercing, say which is apparently the commonest form of plastic surgery paid for by the NHS

Blimey, how do people get these things? I can't get a fairly large cyst removed from my back (despite there being a GP in the surgery who does it) because it is 'cosmetic'. If it gets infected (it has done once) and I needed 2 loads of antibiotics and then a nurse to dress it daily once it burst for about 2 weeks (it was a large wound). These are the kind of things which end up costing MORE money.

OP posts:
Sleepybeanbump · 08/01/2017 20:49

I have private healthcare - but to see a consultant I have to go to the gp and get a referral letter. What a waste of time / money.

Oh yes, we've had this sort of thing so much this year. A&E doctor told our son needed a test done. Ring gp to arrange and they made me go in for an appointment in order to get a referral letter for the test. Wasted appointment. I've been told by a private out of hours gp that I need a blood test, and of course if I want the test on the NHS then l'll also need another NHS gp appointment just to refer me for the blood test.

Sleepybeanbump · 08/01/2017 20:55

if you consider very elderly women, who occupy beds in huge numbers, you may well find that many never worked/paid taxes at all, except perhaps for just a few years before marriage and children
And presumably when this was more the norm the system took this into account and at the time the NHS contributions and the cost of the NHS across society added up i.e. The tax contributions of one wage earner were considered enough to cover their whole household (let's ignore for now that the books never really balance and it's all a pyramid scheme). I very much doubt that their lack of contributions over the years has any impact on the current situation. Surely we have to assume that in the days when one income often could support a family, one tax contribution could also cover that family's cost to the system.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 08/01/2017 20:59

Usual ageist shit being trotted out without moderation.

Which bit?

Sleepybeanbump · 08/01/2017 21:05

Talkinpeace I don't dispute the birth rate stats, but I wonder whether some areas have a particularly bad child-hospital bed or even just adult-hospital bed ratio if they have undergone rapid transformations with little or no infrastructure investment. In such areas a growing trend to have 3 kids will undoubtedly create an even greater strain on a very local level.

I totally agree with you about the need for tax rises. From personal experience I find it's the very affluent elderly who are often the most opposed to this idea, while doing much pearl clutching about the ghastly NHS and bemoaning the cost of the private care they're 'forced' to pay for.

Tanith · 08/01/2017 21:13

What can you do ?
Simple
Demand of your MP that Income tax rises by 5% to fund
the NHS education and social care

Not that simple at all: my MP is Jeremy Hunt.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 08/01/2017 21:20

I very much doubt that their lack of contributions over the years has any impact on the current situation

I believe you're right, and anyway that was then and this is now. Possibly my fault, though, if I didn't make clear that the post wasn't meant as a value judgement, just a comment that it's not necessarily so that over 65s have paid in all their lives ...

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 08/01/2017 21:43

I would think many of those that hadn't been paying may well have provided care for their parents or PIL and saved the state money in a way that isn't necessarily workable now.

RainyDayBear · 08/01/2017 22:16

I would be very happy to pay more tax if those funds were completely allocated to the NHS. Sadly I wouldn't trust this government if they made that promise, not that they will.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 08/01/2017 22:39

As you identified, Rainy the key word is "if". Call me a cynic, but I'm always reminded of that quote from Sir Humphrey: "Prime Minister, the Treasury doesn't work out what they need to spend and then think how to raise the money ... they pitch for as much as they think they can get away with and then think what to spend it on"

Sounds a bit too close to the truth for me Wink

HelenaDove · 08/01/2017 23:26

I read a couple of posts on here from NHS workers who said that breast reconstruction after mastectomy is now being restricted.

Women suffering yet another cut.

Pun not intended!

BadKnee · 08/01/2017 23:30

I also feel the same as PPs I am so grateful for the NHS that saved my DS's life when he was very small. No thought to the cost. None at all.

But I have also had wasted appointments, lost notes and inefficient service.

The immigrants are a drain - they have kids, They have elderly parents who join them, they use the service and most don't work in highly paid jobs so don't pay tax. But yes they also work for the NHS and the NHS needs them.

But then the elderly are a bigger drain on the service. It is completely mad to be keeping people alive in care homes for years when they can't eat, walk, use the loo, wash or remember who they are. I am not suggesting killing them off but maybe not intervening to save them from everything.

Social care too, and support for carers would make a huge difference. My own mother has been hospitalised with dehydration and malnourishment and whilst I am so pleased that she gets care when she needs it I do wonder .. she is so unhappy and just wants to be allowed to slip away.

And yes more tax would be great but there is no appetite for that.

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 08/01/2017 23:33

Why won't people pay more tax ? I think it's the only answer too

But await to be shouted down

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 08/01/2017 23:35

Wow some agesist comments here

That's why I smoke badknee

I will die a wee bit earlier from cancer and save the wards that way

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 08/01/2017 23:40

I also have so called
Private healthcare

It's shit and I have never seen anyone through them as you need
To start with the GP - who you can never see !

It's a massive massive scam

Vitality we are with

They charge my company thousand and yet no one ever uses them as they have to get referred by an NHS GP that they can never get to see

I fucking hate hate hate vitality

WanderingNotLost · 08/01/2017 23:53

I'll just leave this here

To think we are all just accepting the state of the NHS?