What would you do with this information after being good with DH for a few years?

[MadJeffBarn]

I'll try not to drip feed but I'll try and keep it short...
4 years ago my dh formed a friendship with a girl he worked with. This developed into more, although he swears blind nothing ever happened physically between them. It's such a long story but it was a horrible time in my life, I had PND with our 9 month old daughter at the time, and I know I was pushing him away but he sought solice in her. Eventually it all kicked off because o was tired of feeling second best, he admitted he had feelings for her but still wanted to hang out with her, because, and i quote, 'he didn't want to upset her because all her male friends fancy her and they always end up falling out' and so I kicked him out. He went to the office christmas party and got trashed, which I knew about.
I was told by one of his coworkers that him and the girl in question had a huge argument, and he left. But ive since found out they left together. When I questioned my dh, he said he was so drunk he doesn't even remember arguing with her. I asked him, does he think they slept together... and he said honestly, I don't know.
We've spent the last 4 years working at our relationship, and he's been an absolute angel, both in being faithful and in our relationship in general. But it's playing on my mind. This whole portion of my life was one of the most horrific things I've ever been through, I'm certainly not a jealous person and that's why it was so hard. I drove myself crazy and the only reason i decided to let him back in was because i believed nothing physical ever happened. Should I just leave it? There's no way to prove either way anyway.

OP what if the reason everything has been so good between you is down to the guilt?
If he is lying about not remembering then the last 4 years has been a lie.

Something really similar happened to me. My dh developed a close friendship with some woman at work when dd was about 1. I think they probably shagged but I don't know. It was an awful time. He struggled with getting used to the fact he had was a parent and also she was more fun than I was at time. Both things make him a twat. But we decided to work on getting over it, he acknowledged what a pathetic idiot he had been, and we are still together and happy. We are both different people now and that was the past and that is where it will stay. I'm pleased I stayed with him. New info about that awful time would really perturb me but I would try to put it out of my mind. I think you have made your decision to stick with him, he is a good dh so if you can leave all that in the past you should be fine.

Agree with crowd.

I would let it lie now, it is 4 years, he has worked hard.

I am assuming he does not work with her or see her anymore, if he did I may feel differently.

I would say that maybe he did sleep with her, maybe he didn't. Maybe he remembers, maybe he doesn't. Maybe he did 'something' with her but maybe not a whole lot of anything. Who knows. I would make my decision to forgive whatever it was that happened and move on.

MummyToThree I have got to ask (sorry, pathetic to be curious!) but when you say "I know we opened the oven but 20 years on I don't know if we baked the potatoes." Was that a metaphor or did you really try and bake potatoes!!

... and I agree with you "If I was happy right now and he was a good dad/DH then no way would I be ending my relationship because of it"

MadMags "Personally, I wouldn't stay married to a cheat. And I think women who do have zero self-respect."

It's fine to have this opinion but I think you are basing it on what you think about an affair. I can imagine staying with someone who cheated, potentially, but I don't have zero self respect. I may just make a choice to accept that something bad happened and move on. I can think of a whole bunch of other stuff I could never accept, but an affair or especially a one night stand, personally, I am not sure it would be a breaking point for me and I don't think it is an issue of self respect.

Pendrive provides sound advice above.

You are having a wobble...time of year, memory of Christmas party, Facebook timeline and meeting up with co-worker. You acknowledge that you were having a seriously shit time when this happened. Doesn't make it right but does make it more understandable.

Relationships go through some pretty shocking times. You have come through that and have a good relationship now. Things have moved on. And so will you .

I can imagine staying with someone who cheated, potentially, but I don't have zero self respect. I may just make a choice to accept that something bad happened and move on. I can think of a whole bunch of other stuff I could never accept, but an affair or especially a one night stand, personally, I am not sure it would be a breaking point for me and I don't think it is an issue of self respect

I think the circumstances of this are important though. It's not just that he cheated. He cheated when the OP was going through PND and his baby was only 9 months old. His response to a difficult situation is to shag someone else rather than working on the relationship and supporting the OP. What if the OP develops another illness in the future?

Secondly, he has refused to take full responsibility for what he has done. He has been dishonest with the OP. It's pretty clear he did sleep with his work colleague. He refused to end his EA with her (which, lets face it, was probably sexual by that stage). He comes out with some pathetic excuse about how he can't remember whether he slept with her (what? did she have a blackout too?). This is not someone who is repentant and who has learned from his mistakes. I don't think it is truly possible to move on from an affair unless the guilty party takes full ownership for what they did.

Both of these make me think it is likely that he will do it again (if he hasn't already). If the OP is cool with that, then fine. I wouldn't be though.

Crowdblundering that is a good ending.

OP "It might make me a weak person but it's the only time I've ever thought he's been anything less than faithful, and we were having a seriously shit time. I feel like I'm making loads of excuses for his behaviour but they can't really be ignored. I don't know, like I said I feel like I should be angrier than I actually am."

I think you really need to decide how you feel about this and not how you think others think you should feel.

If he did lie to you then it was wrong, it was wrong to have any sexual relationship, long or short, and wrong to lie. But to me it does not mean your relationship is built on a lie or that you are wrong to be together.

Would counselling help? I am sorry I say that all the time! I guess stay, and accept the level of uncertainty, or go or say I will stay but i want absolute truth and then we can go on with our lives. Whether you would be able to stay if you got that absolute truth or not, I don't know.

My problem would be what happens if difficult times happen again. When you needed him most he wasn't there. Anyone can be in a relationship that's going well. The real test is when it's tough.

Would you have cheated if your DH had been depressed/going through an awful time? His being pushed to another woman is nothing to do with you. Not your fault at all.

What if you decide to have another child, and (god forbid) PND returns, what will he do? Bail again?

For me, it would be a deal breaker. I've been from one extreme to the other. Previous partner cheated all through pregnancy and after, blamed me. DH is the total opposite. After baby last year I was ill for months. Sex was on the back burner.

He's a keeper because when the going gets tough, he steps up. He is my rock. And when things have been shit for him, I'm his. We're partners.

I would worry that it might happen again. Plus, men who cheat, they only tell you the least amount they can get away with. I found that out the hard way too.

1horatio

Where did you wake up? Still wearing panties? A bra? Tights? Who did you leave with, according to your friends? Do you feel sore? Any sticky residue...? Used condo,?

That sort of stuff. I luckily never had to wonder that way... but I imagine that this is how it would go.

Oh yes, I was thinking of OPs partner so from a male point of view, I was sort of imagining if you were that drunk you probably wouldn't be terribly on the ball the next morning. I can see the used condom would be a giveaway.

I've never drunk alcohol so only know about hangover's by seeing other people but they never seem very with it to me. I realise it isn't always like this if you've been drinking but if you've been drinking enough that you have no memory of what went on. I have been at work's parties and had fun the next day telling people about what they did/said and they don't always seem to remember. Maybe they do but don't admit it, I always assumed they were telling me the truth.

gluteus I had PND with my second and he was much more supportive second time round, thankfully.
Can I just say thankyou everyone for your kind words. It's helped hearing other people's point of view, it's hard to get unbiased opinions in rl

gluteustothemaximus I agree completely. The OP's DH has shown himself to be unsupportive and unreliable.

Crowdblundering's scenario was completely different. She cheated first, her DP then got 'revenge' by cheating, both were honest and they moved on and saved their relationship. The OP was going through an extremely tough and emotional time. Her DH shagged his work colleague instead of supporting her. Not the same.

DH has limited memories of the night we realised we had a physical attraction. He was drunk enough to have accepted the challenge of drinking a "cocktail" ie a pint glass of spirits. He succeeded, then we went to the pub. The two of us made an early exit. He was told the rumours, but couldn't remember the details of what we did, (and he was physically capable.) We know he ended up falling asleep in the bathroom. By morning, he'd somehow arranged himself into a sleeping bag on the floor. He was still drunk two days after. It was miraculous that he didn't end up in hospital

So it can be possible, but is probably more "convenient" than likely that his memory has lapsed.

I don't think that this changes the events from the past: the emotional side is harder to forgive than a physical act which is what you have dealt with. His future actions are more important.

Is it worth blocking her on FB so you don't get that reminder?

No one except the two individuals concerned know whether OP's husband and Miss Fancy-Pants had sex. There is nothing in OP's original or subsequent posts that implies any certainties, so unless some of the contributors here know something the OP hasn't told us, they must desist from asserting that OP's husband definitely had sex with this manipulative attention seeker.

Neither is it reasonable to assume the OP lacks self respect because she has tried to save her marriage and family. On the contrary, she would be demonstrating a lack of self respect if she were to end her marriage because a stranger on the internet said she should.

It seems OP's husband, in common with some other of his male colleagues were 'enchanted' by Miss FP who was keen to encourage them - probably to boost her own ego. This does not necessarily mean she had sex with any of them.

On the night in question, the account OP was given was that her husband and Miss FP left separately following an argument. Four years later a friend has decided to say they left together. If I were the OP I would question the motive of this 'friend', firstly for not mentioning it at the time; and, secondly for dredging it up four years later.

I cannot say whether OP's husband had sex with Miss FP and do not pretend to, but in the most important way, this is not the issue. The issue is whether in light of the uncertainly that will never be resolved, OP can continue with her marriage. That can only be decided by OP herself.

Good luck OP.

I really don't agree with once a cheat always a cheat. I think it depends on the cheating circumstances. If someone's in a good loving relationship and they cheat, then yeah ltb because it'll happen again BUT if your in a relationship that isn't good, everyone's miserable, everyone's feeling shut off etc I think that it can happen to anyone because we all want to feel wanted and loved so you look elsewhere to feel like that.

I do think that if you've worked hard to move on and your in a great place now then you should lock it up, put it in a box and drop it in the ocean because you need to let it go and in the grand scheme of things does it matter? I would be more hurt my the emotional cheating anyway, to me sex is sex. I've had sex with people and it has meant 0, I don't think everyone I've slept with is amazing BUT there's very few people that I have been emotionally involved with so getting this info wouldn't be a deal breaker.

So sorry you had PND with your second, but very glad to hear he supported you. I hope you are able to move on if that's what you want to do x

What would happen if you are ill in the future, will he have another affair? When the chips are down he puts his own needs first.

they must desist from asserting that OP's husband definitely had sex with this manipulative attention seeker

It seems OP's husband, in common with some other of his male colleagues were 'enchanted' by Miss FP who was keen to encourage them - probably to boost her own ego

Yeah, what a massive slag The OP's poor poor DH was just 'enchanted' by this harlot who led them astray for an ego boost. Poor lamb.

Sorry, but the fault lies entirely with the DH. The OP doesn't even know the other woman. The DH may have fed her a crock of shite about how his nagging wife doesn't understanding. You know, like married men do not too infrequently.

I think the emotional cheating is as bad as the physical cheating and I think the probability is he did both.

However it was 4 years ago and I think he has learned from his mistake and realises he had a lucky escape from her as she sounds a bit deranged.

He was shocked into realising how near he had come to losing you and his family and has done all he can to make it up to you. He can't do any more than he has.

He's chosen to deny knowing what happened perhaps because he knows it would hurt you the most?

Dredging all this up would do what? Make either of you feel better? Does the truth always set you free or tie you in even more knots? Is confession really good for the soul?

I would say leave it. Accept he made mistakes and is sorry for them. Everyone makes mistakes and everyone should be forgiven and I think you should forgive mentally and just leave it in the past where it belongs.

The truth would set her free to make a decision on her future based on facts, honesty, respect and her partners acceptance of blame.

IF he did sleep with her, and I'm not saying he did, but IF he did no matter how many years later, the first step to him accepting the the consequences of his actions is to tell her everything that happened and respect her enough to give her the choice to stay with him despite his mistake.

For me personally, it wouldn't matter how long had gone by if I felt that he still hadn't given me that respect and been truthful to me about what happened.

Until recently I'd have said 'He must know'. I now know it's totally possible not to know. Totally. He might not know, or he might have lied to you to protect your feelings & his marriage. You'll never know.

One thing I've learnt over the years is that a 'decision' about a relationship can be changed. Knowing it and actually accepting it are two different things. Really think about that and lighten the current load on your shoulders. You don't have to take any action now. You don't have to decide right now if you can live with this or not. At any point in the future you can end your marriage if you aren't happy. I think accepting that gives you a lot of freedom & takes the pressure off.

You are (were?) happy, you've moved on and he seems to have proven that he's changed. People can learn from their mistakes. Why not just carry on with life and see how you feel?

When I was young the physical part of an affair would have been the thing that really hurt me/was a deal breaker. Now, it would be the emotional side. Sex is sex. Yes, sometimes it's incredibly emotional & connecting, but often it's just sex. I think if you can get past the emotional affair and feel he's learnt his lesson, then really, whether they fucked or not isn't significant.

I think if you're comfortable with leaving it in the past, do it. Might be worth confronting him with your conviction that they did have an affair though, and keeping in mind that you owe him nothing should you decide on future that you don't want him any more or that you want something better.

Has anyone, ever, not known if they slept with someone or not?

I have granted I was young and inexperienced with drink. Went back with this guy I vaguely knew and genuinely do not remember a thing. I was single so it didn't matter, but It can happen. Although since being in a relationship with dp (7.5yrs) I have never found myself in that sort of situation and I doubt I ever will.

I can't imagine what I'd do in your shoes op, it must be horrendous. I think I would need to know either way otherwise it would play on my mind, but IF he genuinely doesn't know then I'm not sure what I'd do to be honest

So she needs to drag a confession out of him so that she can decide whether or not to continue the marriage? The one that's going so well for the past 4 years?

So destroying the happiness they have both found in that time is worth one stupid mistake? One silly infatuation.

I'm glad I don't live my life in such black and white certainty and can forgive and move forward. Life too short and filled with uncertainties to let the past fester and destroy what you have.

To love someone you have to trust them and if you've rebuilt that trust don't scrape it away like a healing scab. Not everyone can live in the MN perfect marriage where no one ever says or does the wrong thing. If you love someone then you forgive them their mistakes if they are truly sorry.

Re: Alcohol blackouts.

They can and do happen to a lot of people. They are also the reason I no longer drink. Anything past 4/5 drinks I get blackouts. Sometimes just a little bit of the evening but other times I lose pretty much the whole night - maybe little 10 second snippets of memory or a bit of a conversation and then nothing. Sometimes I don't think I have had any blackouts until someone tells me what I said or did and I realise I have no memory of that part of the night.

I have woke up not knowing if I've had sex with someone (although given the evidence I think I probably did). On one occasion (pre DH) I woke up at a male friend's house, I thought nothing had happened between us and I had just crashed there until I found a video on my phone - I was clearly conscious and into it - I was also the one doing the filming- but have zero memory of the evening beyond 8pm.

I'm not sure if the OP's husband had a genuine black out or not. If it's something he's prone to maybe. Also drug blackouts are more common than alcohol blackouts so it could be possible if he was drinking and then took drugs on top of the alcohol resulting in a blackout. Op said he stayed at his mums that night but didn't get home till 4am. I suppose it could be possible they went on to another pub or club and then whent home separately. Surely if they had sex they would have gone back to her house and he would have stayed overnight? If he was really, really drunk then getting back to his Mum's house at 4am wouldn't be been a priority in his mind.

It's up to you OP if you buy his story or not. I'm honestly not sure what I would do in your position. I would love to say I would put it to the back of my mind and move on but I'm not sure if I would be able to.

I think you must know that even if he didnt actually have sex he went home with her. The intention was there. I found out that my hubby had been having an emotional type affair after our daughter was born. It too was a particularly awful time for me, I wasnt pushing him away but I certainly had issues. I found out after he had arranged to meet up with her but before he had chance to so he didnt sleep with her but I'm pretty sure they had kissed from the messages.
Also, while checking his phone I came across text evidence of previous cheating, drug taking and prostitutes from earlier in our 10 year relationship, but before we were married & when he worked away. I feel your situation is similar to mine. I kicked him out etc but we have got back together as we do love each other. He still hasnt admitted everything and tbh I dont think I could cope if he did. This works for us though because I feel sick when I do think about it ( not often 2 year on). My point is can you live with it? I punished him for ages before kicking him out even though I told myself that I wasn't. Its only after I truly decided to forgive ( not forget) that we could move forwards as a couple. Sadly I will never trust him like I did and he has had to accept that fact. My decision may not be for everyone but it works for us. Are you happy now OP? Can you forgive and ( mainly) forget on a daily basis or is it going to eat you up?