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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think trying to close down a library/archive because you don't like a event is just not on

222 replies

thecraftyfox · 06/01/2017 06:03

Yes, it's trans related. If that gets your hackles up, stop reading now.

The small but very important Working Class Movement Library in Salford has been around for ages and does what it does brilliantly on a teeny budget and wth predominantly volunteers. It's such a valuable resource for historians and well, anybody interested in things like the Suffragettes, the Union movement etc.

In February they're hosting a talk by Julie Bindel on growing up and coming out as a lesbian in 1970s North East England. Julie Bindel wrote this article in 2004 which states that transwomen are not the same as women. www.theguardian.com/world/2004/jan/31/gender.weekend7 Since then she has been harrassed and hounded for it.

As a result the WCML is being bombarded online by transactivists in an attempt to punish them. They are giving them dreadful reviews despite never going there, attempting to cause financial damage by trying to stop funding and promotion of the place and getting people to call them. If you don't like it, don't attend. The talk is not about transpeople, it's about Julie's life and work which has been enormously important for many women, especially her work with women who have been abused. I can't understand why a small library can't host this event without being subjected to such vitriol and harrassment. Am I being unreasonable to think that if you don't like what somebody writes or says, you don't start a campaign of harrassment and act like a spoilt child. www.facebook.com/wcmlibrary/ the comments and posts are just unbelievably spiteful.

OP posts:
1horatio · 07/01/2017 13:13

straight and genderconfroming

I was still thinking about the apartheid comment. Oops...!

YetAnotherSpartacus · 07/01/2017 13:15

I wonder how many TRA's have stopped to think about the impact of this on working class people ...???

.

1horatio · 07/01/2017 13:19

yet

But they're privileged... even if the trans person went to Oxford.

BoneyBackJefferson · 07/01/2017 13:20

ThisYearWillbeBetter

But we can never tell the menz to be quiet, can we?

Probably because they would be ridiculed for poor spelling.

brasty · 07/01/2017 13:23

Lots of intersex people don't think they should be part of this. In fact most intersex people now use a different name to distance themselves from this. Sorry can't remember what it is.

1horatio · 07/01/2017 13:28

brasty
I imagine that some intersex people could be quite offended by trans rhetoric. Or at least don't want to be associated with it.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 07/01/2017 13:35

Horatio - sorry, I don't understand your point.

Mine was that the library (and museum, which is absolutely wonderful, btw) are two of the few public memorials to the history of working class people. To call for the closure of this because of one speaker at one event just smacks of a lack of understanding of and care about others' oppression and struggles against this.

I'm ambivalent re JB. Obviously I'm more than a bit suspect re aspects of trans politics, but even if a TRA were speaking about their experiences of being a TRA at the library I'd not be agitating for its closure, and nor would other rad fems. Yet, it is the TRA mob and their pomo friends who blether on about intersectionality who argue for this. It is so hypocritical it makes me sick.

1horatio · 07/01/2017 13:38

It was meant to be sarcastic. The whole privilege theory that tends to take race, sexuality, gender etc into account but for some weird reason usually disregards social class and wealth.

noeffingidea · 07/01/2017 13:43

1horatio my thoughts are it's not really an issue, at least in our culture.
If you are asexual you wouldn't want a partner seeing as that involves a sexual relationship, otherwise it would be called a friendship or something similar. Of course like minded people can set the rules within their own relationship. If 2 people want to get married and never have sex then nothing is stopping them.
It is becoming more and more accepted, at least in British and similar types of society that its ok to be single. Of course thats not the case in some more traditional societies and I expect there are many asexual people who are pressurised into marriage and therefore sexual relations which are unpleasant for them. I do feel for anyone in that position but I don't think they are being catered for by this particular LGBTQIA group.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 07/01/2017 13:50

... Oh so we are on the same page then ...

I agree that class and wealth often seem to be the poor relation.

1horatio · 07/01/2017 13:51

no

Interesting. I thought asexual people could still have romantic desires and feelings?

YetAnotherSpartacus · 07/01/2017 14:03

I have heard some people describe themselves as aromantic and asexual to distinguish them from those who are asexual but romantic, so to speak. I've also heard that there is a difference between those who self-stimulate quite happily, but have no interest in a partner and those who are completely devoid of sexual feeling. I'm just glad I'm old, frankly! It's all too complicated for me.

1horatio · 07/01/2017 14:07

I met a really funny and pretty woman a few years ago (before DH) in a 'queer' space.

She was apparently pansexual and aromantic. I'm actually quite glad she told me in advance...

Godstopper · 07/01/2017 14:30

I am a gay woman: it is only on this forum that I feel able to express my views (because I'd be called 'Transphobic' and a 'Terf' elsewhere).

I am embarrassed to be associated with these types of outspoken Trans-activist's who, strangely enough, are invariably MEN attempting to erase and diminish my rights.

Why wouldn't I want to sleep with someone in possession of a penis? Well, let me think: maybe because I'm a LESBIAN. But all of a sudden, this is "discriminatory" and I should "analyse why I have this preference." It's fucking bizarre.

I am 100% behind equal rights for Trans people: no-one should face e.g. employment and education barriers, or be driven to suicide in prison. But those rights do not extend to the bedroom. Why is this such a big problem?

Neither do I wish to be associated with the T in LGBT. The former three represent sexual preferences, whereas the T represents those who feel they are in the wrong body. I do not. We don't have much in common. But I keep silent about this amongst my LGBT friends.

I do feel we (that is, us lesbians and perhaps straight women are also being accused of being transphobic for the same reasons) need to fight back. It's getting way out of control now, and it seems some won't stop until they gain access to what, for me, have always been non-threatening spaces.

LumelaMme · 07/01/2017 14:38

Elemdon
No platforming.... is fascism
Exactly. I can't believe the twerps who haven't worked this out.

Andrewofgg · 07/01/2017 17:51

Godstopper To apply the language of discrimination to anyone's choice of who to sleep with - or to form any sort of personal relationship - is to devalue the language of discrimination. There is no obligation to avoid "discriminating" against people of your own gender, the other gender, trans people, or come to that people of another race or religion or social background. It's a matter of personal, individual choice.

And Spartacus It would not matter if this library was an expensive subscription outfit only catering to the rich. No-platforming would still be wrong!

MrsMattBomer · 07/01/2017 18:18

I don't like Bindel for a variety of reasons but there are better ways to show your opposition to her than depriving a tiny museum/library of money.

If it's a talk, presumably there'll be a Q&A and ample time to state why you disagree with her then?

Katnisnevergreen · 07/01/2017 18:36

For those asking about JBs anti bi agenda

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2008/nov/08/lesbianism

Have a read...very condescending and bigoted I would say

1horatio · 07/01/2017 18:39

Katnis

Sure, she's a twat and I wish she would just shut up. But non-platforming her is still stupid. And even more importantly, trying to close a library is just awful imo.

OvariesForgotHerPassword · 07/01/2017 18:56

I dislike Julie Bindel for what she says about bisexuality. I find her obnoxious, arrogant and offensive.

But all of this "safe space"ing and "no platforming" is ridiculous. I disagree with most things she has to say, but I defend her right to say them. The world is not a safe space, and the sooner we get used to it, the better.

Elendon · 07/01/2017 19:01

I don't see a problem with that post Katnis. Can you explain to me what the problem is?

Elendon · 07/01/2017 19:06

1Horatio, there are many people who have orgasms in their sleep, for no apparent reason other than they are sensuous people. They may not like sexual intercourse though. They probably enjoy pleasuring themselves. They also enjoy being in the company of others. And it's certainly a bonus if they meet someone who feels likewise.

1horatio · 07/01/2017 19:07

Well, it seems to me like she may imply that bisexuality is 'an odd habit or sexual characteristic'. Which is more than slightly rich coming from a lesbian.

But I actually did like this part: 'I am told I should not be nominated for awards from a gay organisation because I am part of one big "queer family" which should, they say, include transsexuals; but I am not allowed to comment on transsexualism. '

It is true. If trans people can make statements about other people in 'the community' it should also work the other way. Or they should stop being part of the 'community' (which some trans people actually want...)

1horatio · 07/01/2017 19:08

elendon

Yes, I assume that would be the case for some people...?

Elendon · 07/01/2017 19:10

But asexual people do not need an interest group because they can live as they desire.

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