To think trying to close down a library/archive because you don't like a event is just not on

[thecraftyfox]

Yes, it's trans related. If that gets your hackles up, stop reading now.

The small but very important Working Class Movement Library in Salford has been around for ages and does what it does brilliantly on a teeny budget and wth predominantly volunteers. It's such a valuable resource for historians and well, anybody interested in things like the Suffragettes, the Union movement etc.

In February they're hosting a talk by Julie Bindel on growing up and coming out as a lesbian in 1970s North East England. Julie Bindel wrote this article in 2004 which states that transwomen are not the same as women. www.theguardian.com/world/2004/jan/31/gender.weekend7 Since then she has been harrassed and hounded for it.

As a result the WCML is being bombarded online by transactivists in an attempt to punish them. They are giving them dreadful reviews despite never going there, attempting to cause financial damage by trying to stop funding and promotion of the place and getting people to call them. If you don't like it, don't attend. The talk is not about transpeople, it's about Julie's life and work which has been enormously important for many women, especially her work with women who have been abused. I can't understand why a small library can't host this event without being subjected to such vitriol and harrassment. Am I being unreasonable to think that if you don't like what somebody writes or says, you don't start a campaign of harrassment and act like a spoilt child. www.facebook.com/wcmlibrary/ the comments and posts are just unbelievably spiteful.

YANBU.

Arguing that an event which consists of Julie Bindel speaking about her experiences of growing up as a working class lesbian should exclude Julie Bindel, is unreasonable.

People who are fed up of reading about trans issues should go on the library's page and tell the people who are kicking up a fuss about the event that, and see what response they get!

So rather than try to advance their own rights, these 'activists' are just MRAs who want to silence women.

Anyway, have given a fiver to the museum (would be more but at arse-end of student grant period) so a sarcastic well done to them for raising awareness about a great organisation.

It's funny how the guy leading the campaign to get the Working Class Library shut down looks like the stereotype of a privileged rich private school wanker.

You could almost believe that he'd just spotted an opportunity to shut down a working class resource and took advantage. Either way, harassing and trying to shut down a charity because you don't like a person they invite to an event is pretty fucking low.

Oh this is such an important library. It's on my list for next time I'm in Manchester, and I had no idea they were largely reliant on donations.

So thanks to this thread, I'm going to donate.

YANBU

It's a perfect example of where liberal politics has gone so stupendously wrong.

What the transactivists are saying is "Let's try to erase another bit of working class history because the people running the museum won't accept that our identity politics is far more important than anything else"

Sadly, the view of many on what I used to call the left. Class/economic inequality - don't mention it, pretend it doesn't exist. Identity politics is all that matters.

Very depressing. Thanks for posting about this OP.

brave I personally would be. Calling out people you disagree with is the only way to discredit them.

The alt-right thrives on 'free-speech' issues.

*brave I personally would be. Calling out people you disagree with is the only way to discredit them.

The alt-right thrives on 'free-speech' issues.*

Surely you see the irony here, that calling out people you disagree with is the only way to silence them, when this is what is happening here?
This is slipping into the usual mn trans thread style
Heaven forbid people speak against something they didageee with.

George Orwell is spinning.

This is a group of naive young people who think they're being "radical" by closing down free speech.

They're also ignorant & ill-read in that they have no knowledge of what Julie Bindel has done for women and their safety and rights.

So sad that they think they're revolutionary liberationists. THey're just smarting from not being able to exercise male privilege without check.

Julie Bindel Is a radical feminist who courts controversy. If there were a Katie Hopkins of the LGBT community, she would be that person. She has been described as being 'at war with the entire male race' . Many of her views are reviled by other feminists.
The library has chosen to host this event & should have been been aware that this event would stir up opposition from the many groups of people this woman has offended.

" She has been described as being 'at war with the entire male race' . "

By whom? Clearly by someone who doesn't know the difference between race and sex!

I will be attending this event, as a lesbian and as a feminist. I will also donate to the library.

"
What the transactivists are saying is "Let's try to erase another bit of working class history because the people running the museum won't accept that our identity politics is far more important than anything else" "

Yes, this.

petition signed

Cao - By whom? Clearly by someone who doesn't know the difference between race and sex!

Are you mistaking race to mean ethnicity?

The library has chosen to host this event & should have been been aware that this event would stir up opposition from the many groups of people this woman has offended

It is ridiculous that organisations cannot invite anyone controversial to speak without having to put up with over-the-top opposition.

Students are the worst for this, which does not bode well for the future of free speech.

If you don't like someone or their views, ignore them. Why do you have to stop everyone else from listening to them? Why does it even affect you? Just don't go to the event.

YANBU.

I could sort of understand it (though would still think it was wrong) if the talk was actually about transgender issues. But it's not, it's about a working class woman coming out as lesbian in the 70s

Or is it the lesbianism that is the issue given that it excludes males?

myfavour Very true but I oppose people stir up hate and division within or between groups. It depends on motive.

Elodie, male is neither a race nor an ethnicity. There can be "male members of a race/ethnicity" but there is no "male race/ethnicity".

"Or is it the lesbianism that is the issue given that it excludes males?"

I think this is the long and short of it, yes.

Cao She also seeks to exclude male to female trans.

Students are the worst for this

Indeed. All down to the notion of "safe space" - fine, safe from physical risk but not safe from hearing other points of view or mixing with people you may not like.

I believe that in the USA students, especially first-degree students, are regarded as being "at school" - which treats those years as the end of childhood, rather than as the beginning of adulthood. And in adulthood there is no "safe space" in the wider sense.

A year or two a young woman in my office of Kenyan Asian origin organised a cake-sale in aid of some charity which works with the children of Gaza. Fine by me. But the following month a new colleague joined us; a man whose family had emigrated to Israel when he was a child and who was of dual Israeli-British citizenship and entitled to return here, which he did, but only after doing his time in the Israeli Army. And I can't imagine she was too pleased, but she had to work with him properly and professionally which she did. I would not fancy his chances on a British university campus these days!

Elodie

I hope I have misunderstood you, but are you saying that lesbians, who are exclusively sexually attracted to females, should be sexually attracted to transwomen (who are of course male)?

I can't stand Julie Bindel, for many reasons, and I support rights for trans women.

However, nobody should be attacking the Working Class Movement Library for this, and in any case it's hugely counter-productive to the cause of the people doing the attacking, so they are being idiots.

I know the WCML very well and it's a very valuable archive and resource. And she hasn't been hired to talk about trans issues; she's been hired to talk about her experiences as a working class lesbian and how they might have differed from the experiences of someone from a middle-class background.

I mean, I find the political opinions of David Starkey largely abhorrent, but that doesn't mean I would demand a university be closed down because he gives lectures there on Tudor history.

Exclude from what? The event is entirely open to anyone.

I don't support no-platforming Bindel and agree the campaign against her and the library is troubling and aggressive.

However, the context here is that she has been invited to speak under the auspices of LGBT History month. Given that she denies the validity of both B and T, I can see the point of those saying it is not an appropriate platform.