To wonder if this discipline was excessive of my mother?

[PineappleFwitters]

My mother always physically punished us as children. It's what she grew up with and what she knew, but I think it happened more because she lost her temper than because I was badly behaved.

Once, when I was about 12, I was keeping an eye on my brother but also reading my copy of Mandy (yes it was that long ago!) Before I knew what was happening my brother, who was probably about 9 months at the time, rolled off the bed and fell into the (carpeted) floor. He was not injured (as the bed was fairly low) but he cried, and my mother came storming into the room, slapped me and tore my magazine into pieces.

Now I don't deny that I should've been keeping a closer eye on my brother, but was her behaviour not a tad OTT? Again, I think she lost her temper and didn't know how to deal with it. I don't hold a grudge against her but I do wonder if it's why, even today, I get easily annoyed with her. Part of me is worried that I might wind up acting like that with DC, but fortunately so far so good.

Anyway not sure why I'm posting this really, maybe to see if my feelings are justified or if her behaviour was excessive.

There are plenty of people now who think hitting children is OK- or even a good thing. I have been on threads on here with them.........

And there were plenty of parents who didn't hit the 60s,70s and 80s. I think the "autres temps, autres moeres" argument needs to be used with care.

I was often smacked hard without warning for being slow to answer, or not doing what was asked quickly enough...Then I stayed with an aunt in the summer who smacked me and sent me to bedroom for accidentally spilling water (I said I thought the pot was too heavy, but she made me try to do it anyway...). Oddly, at the time I accepted the stuff at home as deserved, but felt that she was being completely unfair.
I think it was pretty typical in the 1970's, and while some people seem unscathed, it has left me very jumpy.

Generally I don't think a child should be responsible for a child. It's not my 8 year olds burden to watch his baby sibling, so even when I ask him to keep an eye on the baby, I'd only leave them in an already safe situation

I couldn't agree more YOU the parent are taking a RISK if you ask a child to watch a child. and will rolling and falling its happened to every mum in RL i know incld ME.

No I wouldn't massively punish a child I had asked to do me a favour. I would explain perhaps we must watch the dc more carefully but ultimately that buck stops with me. The other child has to want to keep the other one safe - you cant foster that through a punishment.

True, Bertrand. Even so I'd hesitate to judge another period by contemporary standards - it's quite complex. I had a friend at school in the 1970s who only recently told me they were knocked about by their dad at home, the entire way through school - and that was why they were the class clown, and the drama 'star' of the school. Acting was an escape - and a place they were seen as 'good' and met with approval. I was absolutely stunned. My friend had always seemed so happy and popular and I'd had no clue they were being knocked around, badly, their entire childhood. So there was a culture of 'behind closed doors' as well which still prevails.

Bertrand, I wouldn't ask a 12 yr old to look after a baby lying on a bed where he could roll over, because it would be utterly predictable that the 12 yr old would get distracted and baby would fall off! Too much responsibility. imv 12 yr olds are not suitable carers for babies these days (interesting that they used to be nursery maids etc, but I suspect it was a different culture then.) Not fair to have expected op to do it.

Cuit, my teenagers were saying the other day that their cousin's baby is the first one they've ever been asked to hold, and I was just telling them that once, in the mid 1970s, me and my mate were asked to babysit for a whole evening and upto about 1 AM. We were total strangers to the family, and they were asking us to babysit quite a young baby. I'd never so much as seen a baby close up in my entire life. It wasn't even seen as odd, that someone down the village would get two random kids who had no experience whatsoever of babies, to babysit!

I had friends in bigger families who'd routinely look after younger siblings and by the time I was ten I had a front door key and knew how to lay and light a coal fire, if I was home alone, and cook a meal on the gas stove, etc. You were kind of thought an idiot if you didn't have your own penknife, if you couldn't prepare a meal, or walk longish distances alone, and generally be as resilient and self reliant as a cockroach after nuclear war.

The responses along the lines of "I'd never give a 9 year old the responsibility of looking after a baby" totally miss the point that it was a world where that was an everyday thing.

Ah - cross posted! I see many have made the same point about not leaving a 12 yr old to look after a baby (particularly one lying on a bed rather than sitting in a playpen), and others disagree!
Interesting Joffrey, yes I think it was different in the 70s - this is a tale of the 80s isn't it, though things may not have changed that much by then?

I am interested in the question about whether parents are less 'angry' and depressed these days - i do genuinely think a lot of parenting is much kinder these days, much more recognition of children's rights and need for autonomy. Why, I wonder?

My parents used physical punishment when we did something that publicly embarrassed them, they were pretty appalling at parenting and it does affect how I see them now. I'm very conflicted.

I looked after babies from the age of 10. Can't 11 yos already be babysitters? And isn't that also the age of criminal responsibility in the U.K. ?(correct me if I'm wrong, I never looked into it up to now).

So, I don't see why a 12 year old couldn't make sure a baby stayed on the bed.

I'll be honest and say it might not be so much that contemporary values are kinder or wiser just that people now know better what is (currently) seen as culturally acceptable. Social media and other pressures force them to overtly conform to norms. But maybe, behind closed doors, things are still not as different as we'd like to think?

To elaborate: I've noticed, when out and about, that you often see parents intently stabbing things into their phones, and not even looking at their kids, let alone interacting with them.

You see this in all kinds of public places.

I always imagine they're on FB typing in "I love my kids, me!" whilst the kids runs under a car. We live in a place with a national speed limit road - and no pavements. And I've seen people walking their infant school aged kids to the school bus stop, so intent on their phone, whilst the kid runs unsupervised ahead - on a road where there are frequently cars doing 70.

Absolutely Joffrey - In 20 years' time we will have posts like 'my DM ignored me and cared about social media more than me - should i go NC'.

Each generation of parents think they are doing it right - each generation of kids has something to criticise them for when they grow up.

My DGM beat and punished DM excessively when she was a child. Now DGM is elderly, slow, frustrating, and is extremely hard work and DM is her mainly carer. Funnily enough, DGM doesn't expect to be slapped or beaten (or be told she is stupid/useless) when she makes mistakes, gets things wrong or irritates the hell out of DM. Neither would society tolerate it. I'm glad physical punishment is no longer deemed acceptable by most today.

"I don't see why a 12 year old couldn't make sure a baby stayed on the bed".

I think it's this that is missing the point. As indicated up thread, numerous parents have had their baby unexpectedly roll or otherwise move off a bed** by accident. Attention is elsewhere for a moment, it happens.

A 12 year old CAN watch a baby left in an unsafe spot, but they SHOULD not. It's unfair on them emotionally, should anything go wrong, as indeed it easily could, and did for poor OP. This even before considering whether the reaction was excessive.

Parents of babies, are (hopefully!) emotionally ready for the enormity of the responsibility and a lot more tuned in to their baby's early movements and therefore assessing any risk of falling than a 12 year old sibling could ever be. If parents make this mistake of course 12 year olds can. Let alone the fact that it was the parent who left him there in the first place.

I disagree that you were in the wrong op.

To then (and some also say in this day and age too) think it's appropriate to dole out further punishment, I find that quite sad.

Whoever said the reaction/punishment was OTT out of guilt, I agree.

frazzle

I'm not saying her mothers reaction wasn't OTT.

That was more of a contribution towards the discussion whether 12 yos are responsible enough to make sure a baby won't fall.

And my answer is yes.

It's different in the case of a a stressed parent that has several other things to do.
But a teenager (or other person) that has been given one duty? To look after a child? And was reading Mandy (or playing on the iPad instead?) yes, I'd take away the iPad.