To wonder if this discipline was excessive of my mother?

[PineappleFwitters]

My mother always physically punished us as children. It's what she grew up with and what she knew, but I think it happened more because she lost her temper than because I was badly behaved.

Once, when I was about 12, I was keeping an eye on my brother but also reading my copy of Mandy (yes it was that long ago!) Before I knew what was happening my brother, who was probably about 9 months at the time, rolled off the bed and fell into the (carpeted) floor. He was not injured (as the bed was fairly low) but he cried, and my mother came storming into the room, slapped me and tore my magazine into pieces.

Now I don't deny that I should've been keeping a closer eye on my brother, but was her behaviour not a tad OTT? Again, I think she lost her temper and didn't know how to deal with it. I don't hold a grudge against her but I do wonder if it's why, even today, I get easily annoyed with her. Part of me is worried that I might wind up acting like that with DC, but fortunately so far so good.

Anyway not sure why I'm posting this really, maybe to see if my feelings are justified or if her behaviour was excessive.

So....

If somebody was expected to watch DD and let her fall? Yes, I'd be angry.

I don't think hitting you was right, but that's because I don't think parents should hit their children. Considering the time it happened things were obviously different. So, calmly taking your Mandy away and putting It in a shredder wouldn't seem like such a bad consequence to me.

But:

She was always flying off the handle tbh, over the smallest things. In fact I remember once bringing up this incident years later and she just laughed and said that's what she's like when she loses her temper. Any attempt to call her out on her behaviour still results in her bursting into tears and refusing to acknowledge that she's done anything wrong.

That seems to be the issue for me. Flying off the handle (constantly) and even now unable to accept criticism.

Mummy - it's wonderful, the access to knowledge, information and help that we have now. I don't know where I'd be without it

Backtowork

My mother only had my dd for very short periods of time when she was little. I have put some very strict boundaries in place. I would not have let her have dd for a whole day as a baby/toddler and spent a long time observing her before I trusted her with my dd. Now that dd is 8, dd would tell me if anything happened and mother has had her once for a sleepover when she was 7, then 2 nights in the last summer holidays. When my mother told me she would smack my dd is she did x, she was told that if she did, she wouldn't be seeing dd again. So she knows. I think the key is not to let your child be with a person you don't wholly trust until your child can recount an event. As it stands, my dd at 8 is more mature than her grandmother and puts her in her place nicely.

I wouldn't leave dd with my fil as he isn't fully capable of looking after her. We strongly suspect he has undiagnosed autism and cannot deal with things out of the norm. He's 80. So I wouldn't be able to trust him with her on his own if some emergency arose. Such as if she had a seizure or there was a fire.

Cherylene

Took me till my 40's as well. Why oh why did I insist on chasing exotic and well thought out holiday gifts (the famous unused parasol from Tokyo - £60 in 2002) and spending £100 for Xmas every year, which wasn't well received when brother and sil bought her a garden centre pot plant on Xmas eve? I should have been enjoying myself!

LaComtessa

Me too

My mum was horrible when it comes to hitting us. She'd hit us for anything and everything. My dad was the opposite. She was so bad. She was a SAHM so did all the bills etc and dad wasn't minted either . We went to a private school and there was a time my dad gave her money to go and pay our fees (lots of money then) but she spent it on a wedding she wanted to attend but couldn't get money for. She told us what she did, threatened and beat us up so bad so that we won't tell dad and We were harassed at school for the fees for a long time. The school eventually wrote to dad and that got sorted. She was so proud of her awful parenting that she even once told me that she used to beat me when I was 11 months because I didn't walk in time and I always wanted her to hold me. She'd beat me up if I had a potty training accident, anything you can think of. I had a horrible childhood thanks to her as dad died when I was 12. Can't stand her now

I was always wary of leaving mine with my mother. She looked after DS for a week but would not listen to me about keeping a close eye on him (she always dismissed me as PFB and lacking control but he has ASD traits) and she lost him long enough to put the wind up her (and me). She did in-the-face-shouting at DD (a technique learned in social childcare ) and that was the point at which I realised (not totally connected) that trying to be that person she wanted to me to be was never going to work.

In the 'good old days' any bugger could slap a child for the slightest reason or none. I remember a teacher banging my head to another girls head. We were 8!
My parents smacked me too.

Is it me or were adults more angry and immature then?

One of our teachers did that - but it was rather frowned upon and a particular teacher who was having personal problems. The rest were content with throwing chalk and blackboard rubbers. Primary teachers used to smack your legs at the drop of a hat though. Even the one who we would have done anything for .

I think it was more generally assumed by adults that kids were incredibly resilient and wouldn't remember any of the violence/insults/general mistreatment. In many areas of the world that's still the general attitude; my dad is Arab and greets 'Western' complaints of parental mistreatment with a certain degree of eye-rolling (although ironically he was a kind, thoughtful parent who only hit on vanishingly rare occasions rather than every day).

Bertrand most people would punish in that situation? Really?!

I can see that you would be pissed off for a minute it happened and might tell the child off, in the same way you might snap' ffs what happened?' at a dp if the same thing happened. But you wouldn't confiscate their iPad would you? Or otherwise punish them?

My son fell off the sofa once because I was distracted putting my shoes on. Should I have not gone out as a punishment to myself? Or the hundreds of times babies have been allowed to fall off beds or whatever because their parents were distracted by tv/ putting on make up/ other children etc. Should they all be punished too?

Not all parents in the 70s and 80s were bad tempered or unable to see the world from the pov of a child. Dp's parents had a great sense of humour and were far more into family togetherness than punishing for the sake of it. Mine were the same but foreign country where corporal punishment had already gone out of fashion anyway. So were my grandparents. My DM's stories about her life in the 30s is peopled by adults who understood children and liked being around children.

We have hereditary depression in our family, but we don't take it out on other people.

This thread is bloody fascinating. My mother was emotionally abusive - sh also hit me loads but the hitting kind of faded into the background compared to the emotional stuff, and even when she did hit me it was more the way it was done that was terrifying - it was usually vicious and it came out of nowhere. I wish I'd realised at an earlier age that there was a certain amount of that "punishment" that I'd never manage to escape no matter how hard I tried to follow the constantly-changing rules.
My dad hit me on occasion as well, when I was little, but he wasn't otherwise abusive and we had a good relationship.

When my kids were 3, I learned something new and unpleasant about myself when I started having the urge to hit them. I've always managed to resist but I'm in therapy just now partly because of this - I don't want to have to rely on willpower in moments of stress, I'd like to see if there's a way to either reduce the stress or make the option of hitting appear further down my brain's list of suggested parenting techniques. The first time I got the urge to hit one of the kids I found it very hard to cope with and I worried that I was going to turn out like my mother - I mean I considered suicide, I considered running away, and I only really stayed because I figured that if I could sort my head out and be a decent parent, life with two parents is much easier than one just in terms of working and paying for childcare if nothing else. It was a dark place to be though.
It's really reassuring to read this thread and people's similar experiences and it's also been really helpful in that it's reminded me of my dad, who did hit me, but who was a good parent all the same.

Mummyoflittledragon you must be me! This is a lot like my childhood. I wasn't always, and still do, spending a lot of my money on her. She was poor growing up and her and my dad weren't well off either and she had never travelled. When I got my first proper job I brought her to Paris, which was her lifelong dream, and I paid for everything but she argued with me the whole time. Last year I brought her to Copenhagen for the Christmas markets and again she complained the entire time. I've also taken her on trips to Rome, London, and even Disneyland but she always manages to complain and find fault, yet cannot handle it if I even hint at having had anything but a perfect childhood.

I was badly bullied at school, including by a teacher who absolutely terrified me, but despite repeated pleas for help she would not help me or even consider moving me to another school. She just wouldn't engage with it at all and as a result I was suicidal with misery at age ten. The topic of bullying came up recently on a Facebook post, and when I mentioned that I too had been bullied and therefore understood how bad it is (I did not mention my mum) she saw the post and became very upset - not because she felt bad for me, but because she was worried that people would think she was a bad mother because she didn't protect me

*I always not wasn't always

"Bertrand most people would punish in that situation? Really?!
Accidents happen, of course they do. But if you ask your 12 year old to watch the baby and they become engrossed in their IPad and the baby falls.....would everyone be OK with that?

Oh, and loads of parents didn't hit their children in the 70s and 80s. Mine didn't in the 60s. Remember that parents in the 70's and 80s were brought up in the permissive society. I know it had no impact on many people, but it was a turning point in our society.

I'm a bit surprised as well by posters suggesting that a punishment/consequence was out of line. I mean, in the OP's case the mother quite obviously had other issues. However...

If DH let DD fall out of the bed whilst he was being stressed, for example, that's one thing.

However, if a person that has otherwise no other duties or stressors, that's literally just supposed to watch DD but instead spends her time reading Mandy? Yes. There would be consequences (I wouldn't call it punishment, tbh).

Once again, I'm not saying there shouldn't have been any consequences, I'm saying slapping me and tearing my magazine to pieces was perhaps excessive. Confiscating my magazine would've probably been a more appropriate punishment, just like confiscating an iPad would be today, but smashing it to bits wouldn't be.

OP, that wasn't directed at you.

It sounds like your mother had issues and behaved inappropriate on a more or less regular basis (I think you said she flew of the handle constantly etc?)

I was a child of the 80's and my mum used to hit us when we were young. I remember a few incidents - slaps on the legs/bottom, nothing too awful but certainly shocking enough for me to remember.

My dad never hit us because my mum didn't believe in the whole 'wait til your father gets home' thing. She had no dad growing up so I think she just tried to do all the parenting herself. She wasn't oblivious or emotionally immature, she just used the only parenting method she knew from her own childhood.

I agree with pp that being a sahm mum was a factor. My dad worked away a lot and she didn't have any family support or outside childcare, in hindsight she was prob a little depressed at least some of the time and she did have some anger issues. I don't think she's a narcissist, but as others have said about their mothers, she won't entertain any talk that paints our childhoods as less than idyllic. I allow her this little delusion as I can see it mostly stems from her wanting to believe she gave us the perfect childhood that she didn't have.

I have two small children, a dh who works a lot and no family support but I don't hit my children. I don't take credit for this though, I'm just lucky to live in an age where it's no longer acceptable and we have access to information about child psychology and welfare. Also my dh is a more equal not totally equal unfortunately partner than my df was, and I am careful to take time for myself to see friends/relax when I feel like it's all getting on top of me.

Like the op, having children myself has really made me look back on my own childhood and my parents, not always favourably. It's important to me to try not to judge too harshly, even though it's tempting.

And today's children will have plenty to resent about their parents - it's the way it is.

Ironically, my mum adores DS and if she hears me as much as raise my voice to him then she tells me I shouldn't shout at him.

Still RTFT but I have to strongly disagree with you, Bertrand! Punishing a 12 year old who you as an adult have left in charge of a baby and within reach of an iPad?! That is you're own sweet stupidity. The consequence for the 12 year old is the crying baby. Leaving children in charge of infants can be so damaging - and there is why.

Think you've found your future thread criticising the parenting of today...

OP, I too was smacked in temper and ignored - was very scared of my mum (though I love her to bits) and I'm sure it was part of our difficult relationship in my teens! It's perfectly possible to set firm limits without violence or bad behaviour/double standards.

Do accept the points about it being a different time, though.

"Still RTFT but I have to strongly disagree with you, Bertrand! Punishing a 12 year old who you as an adult have left in charge of a baby and within reach of an iPad?!"

I have higher expectations of 12 year olds that you do, obviously. If you had said 7 or 8 I would agree with you. But 12?